Game pacing - Early/Mid/Late

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sterrius

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Well this enter more on the administration part of the game. (But yes, i hope too that we will need planets "feeding" your core worlds to give them enough resources to actually function at 100%).

I Also agree kreis that Stellaris will bring another flavor to the colonization phase, but never hurt to voice the concerno against the problems other 4x games face in this part of the game!

So what you guys think about the mid phase? The diplomacy one!

I really would like the game having some kind of Mass Effect Council. Where minor and big races meet to pass laws and some order to the galaxy.

The entrance to the organization would not be free (The organization need someone to pay the bill :p), and the voting seats limited to only a few seats (Lets say 1 seat for each 5 big empires, minimum of 3 maximum of 10 in case of mods), forcing you to play politics to actually get a seat and you would need to work on the behalf of the civs that voted to you or risk losing the seat in the next election.

Also would make interest consequences having a big empire outside of this organization, as they would try to force everyone to join them, not necessary by military might but by using policies, editcs and its big economy.

And of course, the creators of this organization would get a very minor bonus for beings the "civilized ones".
 
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GhostKiller01

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Well this enter more on the administration part of the game. (But yes, i hope too that we will need planets "feeding" your core worlds to give them enough resources to actually function at 100%).

I Also agree kreis that Stellaris will bring another flavor to the colonization phase, but never hurt to voice the concerno against the problems other 4x games face in this part of the game!

So what you guys think about the mid phase? The diplomacy one!

I really would like the game having some kind of Mass Effect Council. Where minor and big races meet to pass laws and some order to the galaxy.

The entrance to the organization would not be free (The organization need someone to pay the bill :p), and the voting seats limited to only a few seats (Lets say 1 seat for each 5 big empires, minimum of 3 maximum of 10 in case of mods), forcing you to play politics to actually get a seat and you would need to work on the behalf of the civs that voted to you or risk losing the seat in the next election.

Also would make interest consequences having a big empire outside of this organization, as they would try to force everyone to join them, not necessary by military might but by using policies, editcs and its big economy.

And of course, the creators of this organization would get a very minor bonus for beings the "civilized ones".

You are advocating a High Galactic Council, that will be semi prevalent in the mid-game. Wouldn't that be a sort of galaxy-wide federation. It would need a sort of neutral area, like the Citadel in the case of Mass Effect, to house the dignitaries and representatives of each empire. It would be interesting, as I could use a shrewd long term strategy of dismantling it from within by influencing decisions that will seem beneficial, while actually being long term unstable.
I am a militarist, as I believe I have already mentioned, and I will use to instability linked with the fall of the Council to expand my empire, even if I was one of the founding members.
The Council would also not be omnipotent, if you commit extreme modifications on sentient species, say to unleash them as a scourge on the galaxy in order to increase the instability, at the far end of your empire, the Council might not get any information about it. The Council, much like in Mass Effect, will mostly serve the "High Empires" (the voters), with the other member empires being more like part of certain spheres of influence like in Victoria 2.
With that idea in mind, it could mean the Council could be manipulated into giving a seat to some of your vassal nations, those that you have uplifted early game due to their trait of being extremely loyal and have established an great empire while still being obedient. As such, the Council would be in a very precarious position.
The player or the AI could manipulate so many things to make the Council fall into itself, like creating proto-geth and releasing them on the opposite spectrum of the Council federation so that they ravage the area until you intervene and put them down. The whole Council idea allows the player a lot of galactic manipulation.

A better version would be to create a whole neutral sector, where all the species of the galaxy would merge. That sector would elect the head of the Council from one of its population, no matter the species. The empires would all have a seat, as long as their seat is approved by 5 different empires that are not related to one another (preventing the player from uplifting a random species just to make them get a seat and grant the player more power). The neutral sector would be a defacto empire, but its fleets would be composed of foreign participants. Each member would have to grant a certain percentage of ships to safeguard the Council and the entire federation, and no empire should have more than 15% of the Council fleets from his empire, therefore preventing a military coup. This would result in a Council headed by a collection of neutral worlds composed of many different species, dedicated to peace, and protected and at the same time protecting the member empires.
 

sterrius

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We know stellaris have some Empires that already start big but lost their golden age and are in decline.

Those empires could already have created such council and just waiting the new Empires to get there and join. So they can start using politics to increase the council strenght or diminish it.

The idea of making them have a regular army is not a bad one actually. You don´t actually need to give them ships if they receive 0.1 to 1% income of every participant member. They can build any ship from any empire and they would even have some exclusive blueprints. They of course would priorize the ships of the strongest empires. So it would be funny to see the AI using the player ships against them if he becomes the strongest one and dared atacking the council directly.

Also the council don´t need much, just a solar system is more than enough for him. The council need to be in a dead planet, moon or spaceship so they can control the climate and adjust it to fill the necessitys of everyone as a planet can be very deadly to some races.


Also would be nice to see the mechanics. Editcs to regulate war, laws about imigration and emigration or maybe anti-slavery.
Some ways to force a member to comply to some editcs and even work as a deterrent to a strong AI or Player that don´t care for diplomacy and is in a killing spree. (Not fun if the AI don´t give you a challenge, going against a united galaxy is much better than seeing a bunch of empires declaring war at you individually and not sharing the same Warscore).

Also i liked your ideas to twist the council to your designs. (Should not be easy and must need tons of diplomacy, blackmail, time etc).

I think this idea deserves a topic of its own. Its not new to 4x, i remember the Orion series (2 mostly) and Star Ruler had very robust diplomacy systems.
 
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GhostKiller01

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Yeah, that's why I said a multitude of worlds, so that they could all live in the same sector. But something akin to the Citadel would be a good seat for the Council, minus the Reapers of course (although it could be a cool disaster). But I am against the Council having taxes from the members, and allowing the Council being able to build any ship of the members. It makes more sense for the Council to be leased a military by the members, and it also forces the council to have at least 10 members (each 10% max military), and therefore be truly a Galactic Council. The Council would not be a Holy Roman Emperor from EUIV, but a multi protectorate who grows stronger with the amount of members it holds. If powerful enough, the Council could start vassalizing other empires, effectively turning into the Galactic Republic of Star Wars. In that sense, the Council would pass through certain "stages":

The foundation stage, where the first ten (or more) empires agree to the formation of a Galactic Council and a sector in space is colonized by a new nation known as "The Galactic Council". The population of the habitable planets of the area in space (has to be centralised in the galaxy as well) are composed of the species in the founder empires, all the species, even those you have as slaves. All the non member empires and unknown empires get an event stating something like "A communication was intercepted from one of our stations, it is in an unknown language" and the empire gets a new short research program. Once they have translated it, it would reveal the message proclaims the fundation of a galactic council and cetera, asking the non-members to congregate to the center of the galaxy. A Citadel ship also begins building, where it follows a sort of Civ world fair system, with member empires getting a new building option called "The Intra-Species Capital", which is technically infinite, and uses a certain amount of resources per day. All the member empires can participate, and the more production is directed towards its construction, the quicker it is built. The more resources a single empire has spent in its construction, the more favorable the Council will be to that empire. Once it is build, a gas giant-sized "ship" appears in orbit in the most centralized system in the galaxy and acts like a huge planet, called something like "The Council". The ten founding empires are granted a permanent seat in galactic desicions, and five other temporary seats exist that are granted in rotation to other member empires.

The High Species Council stage, which triggers once more than 50% of the empires have joined the Council. At this point, it becomes a sort of Mass Effect Council, with the president being from one of the Council Worlds/Capital, while the five strongest empires (calculating military power, population, territory size, tech level, diplomatic influence, and so on) are granted a "high" seat, while the other members are granted a minor seat. The "High Empire" have a lot of autonomy and can defy Council desicions, while the minor seats must comply or face trade restrictions and unrest (for example, the Council will ask the abolition of slavery, and while the High Empires can ignore the edict, the minor empires might face a huge slave revolt). Every decade, the High Empires can be switched out if a stronger empire is a member of the Council. The Council can also form its own ground armies, with a very high percentage of Spec Ops troops, that will assist sieged planets of any member empire, as well as small ships (max frigate size) to investigate that its edicts are properly implemented.

The Intra-Species Council stage, which triggers after 100 years or so after the previous stage, where the entire structure is reworked. For 1 to 5 years, the Council has a chance to become embroiled in Civil Galactic War. At the end of the unstable period, the Council emerges as a Star Wars kind of Council, with each different species having its own seat on the Council, with each species having the same voting power. Of course, the dominant species in the strongest empire has a lot more implicit authority in the Council, but the president of the council is still from the Council worlds, and it will remain so for until the destruction of the Council. That period will last very long, and has a high chance of increasing tensions and having Galactic Civil Wars happen. The Council can at this point develop its own military presence instead of relying on other empires' ships.

The Council can use the Civil Wars to expand its direct territories, but those have a higher chance of forming seperatist groups, effectively plunging the whole galaxy into more Civil War. Any resolution passed in the last stage is galaxy wide obligatory to the empires. So the abolition of slavery will be passed, and any planet buster weapon or nuke (aka, Weapons of Mass Destruction "WMDs") can be abolished. If a planet buster weapon is found being manufactured or operational, even not scrapped, the Galaxy falls into a Civil War, with sides forming on defying Council authority or abiding to it. The more powerful teh Council gets, the more dangerous it will be to member empire's autonomy.
 
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General Karthos

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Luckily enough, there will be mods to increase the odds. Plus, I'm fairly sure the Star Wars mod will make a fuckton of habitable planets. After all, the trillion inhabitants of Coruscant need the Mid Rim's agricultural worlds to sustain it.

Indeed, and a trillion is (by some estimations I have read) a conservative population estimate. Some of the books put the population at "trillions". The mathematical estimate I saw was 100 trillion.
 
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