Game of Thrones mod

[Nick B II]

Guys,

You aren't being very convincing. In gameplay terms there is nothing keeping us from deciding Kingsguard Knight X is important enough to include in the game. He appears in the capital, and can be used in plots. His loyalty is still torn between his King and his House, and all that other jazz.

Which means there is no gameplay reason to include the Kingsguard in version 1. Let me repeat the three most important words of that just so that you see my actual point, rather then the ones you seem to be arguing against: in version 1.

Yes it would be nice flavor, but all the flavor in the world is totally useless if we don't get the meat right. And right now we got no meat.

Nick

 

[WelshDude]

To an extent.

But it won't be that hard to convert Grell's stuff to newer file formats. For example the character database in CK2 will certainly be a text-file with very specific parameters. The database from his mod was a text-file with very specific parameters.

Since I've used grep to convert entire save-games into SQL databases it shouldn't be too hard for me to convert the characters section of his mod from CK1 to CK2, it'll just take a lot of trial and error. It'll take me 8 hours max. Two if I'm lucky.

Granted it's imperfect. With the entirely new map the characters won't be where they're supposed to go, the tags will be wrong, it won't include a lot of minor guys we're gonna make Baron-level, and it won't include anything GRRM has done recently.

But it's better then nothing.

Nick

This is the format used by Grell:

character = { id = { type = 10 id = 59 } name = Eddard gender = male dynasty = { type = 12 id = 59 } dna = "14023150312079" attributes = { martial = 8 diplomacy = 3 intrigue = 1 stewardship = 6 health = 5 fertility = 5 } traits = { stubborn = yes honest = yes romantic = yes shy = yes temperate = yes knowledged_tactician = yes parental_upbringing = yes } country = STRA religion = orthodox culture = cuman score = { gold = 100 prestige = 100 piety = 25 } father = { type = 10 id = 2058 } birthdate = { year = 1080 month = january day = 0 }}

This is the new format for Sengoku.

name="Eddard"
dynasty=1
culture = Northmen
is_clan_leader = yes
diplomacy = 5 
martial = 7
intrigue = 3
add_trait = stubborn
add_trait = romantic
add_trait = honest
add_trait = temperate
add_trait = knowledged_tactician
add_trait = parental_upbringing
	birth="263.1.1"
}
298.3.1={
	death="298.3.1"
}

Not only that, but while all of the characters were in the same file in CKI, there's a separate file for each in Sengoku. E.g, instead of CKI's big central characters file, in Sengoku (and I'm willing to bet CKII as well) we have and Eddard Stark file, then a Robert Baratheon file, and so on....

 

[FrozenWall]

E.g, instead of CKI's big central characters file, in Sengoku (and I'm willing to bet CKII as well) we have and Eddard Stark file, then a Robert Baratheon file, and so on....

That.. sounds incredibly convoluted...

 

[unmerged(75409)]

I'm sure the file wizards will figure out how to transfer data between those formats quickly enough

If I know how to do it (in MATLAB) others can figure it out just as well...

 

[CarbrBard]

It is not that hard to convert a character from Grell's Mod to the CK2, if the Files are like Sengoku. D:
It's almost pretty much copy/paste

 

[Galle]

The job is essentially just data entry, though, and we can probably find a way to automate it. Both of those are still in consistent formats, so creating a conversion utility would be trivial. I could do it in about a week. Somebody who's actually good at programming could probably do it faster.

 

[Infocalypse]

Both knighthood and Kingsguard are important if we want to recreate the atmosphere.

That's how you feel, I do not agree.

Knighthood and its related things (tournaments, jousts, quests, oaths, courtly love) are necessary not only for flavour events and RP, but also for intrigue and plots. Heck, the whole Robert's Rebellion started because Rhaegar loved Lyanna and ran away with her.

Neither tournaments, jousting, quests, oaths, courtly love go, the kingsguard is completely unneccessary.

Or should we mention Jaime Lannister? The fact that he's a knight of the kingsguard prevents him from becoming the heir of the msot wealthy house of Westeros. Plus, as I said, it has enormous RP value.

The fact prevents him of NOTHING. Jaime IS the heir of the most wealthy house in Westeros. He just gives a sht about it. He prefers fighting and women to the Game of Thrones. The Kingsguard is not the Nightwatch. Membership is not for life and demands that you forfeit your titles. Jaime Lannister is the oldest male heir of Tywin Lannister, thus he is the head of the Lannisters if he chooses so, but he does not. Thus his uncle leads the house in his abscence. Cersei plays her part, but only because he is the mother of the king.

A) It's a great honour to be part of the Kingsguard, and it is an important factor in politics, both for the prestige of the position and the fact that a knight of the kingsguard is, by all means, hostage of the king;

Hostage of the king? What do you smoke? I want some of that, too!

B) They are close to the King (not some random obscure one-province lord, but the King himself!), which means that they can act as spies / advisors / assassins / betrayers other than mere protectors. They may even become Hand of the King.

Yes, they can act as spies, assassins, betrayers, as can everyone at the court. But advisor and hand? Highly unlikely!

We are not talking about nobodies standing idle and doing nothing. They come, most of the time, from important families, and can play, potentially, a huge role.

As Game of Throne shows, almost everyone can potentially play a huge role.

And anyway... RP, people! I don't know about you, but I want to be able to play 80 years in the game after the starting date and still have fun and a "realistic" Westeros-like environment. That's why we need flavour, and knighthood is one of the most characterizing features of the setting. It can't be left outside the mod.

I'm all for adding knighthood and kingsguard to the mod.

Whereas knighthood makes sense to add, adding the kingsguard won't hurt, but it won't matter in the least, on the other hand.

 

[yourworstnightm]

Actually no member of the Kingsguard can marry or own land, so Jaime can't inherit Casterly Rock.

 

[Peuri]

Actually no member of the Kingsguard can marry or own land, so Jaime can't inherit Casterly Rock.

Yes, I think so too.

Spoiler

I think that it read so somewhere in A Feast For Crows during Jaime's POVs.

 

[Cabezaestufa]

The fact prevents him of NOTHING. Jaime IS the heir of the most wealthy house in Westeros. He just gives a sht about it. He prefers fighting and women to the Game of Thrones. The Kingsguard is not the Nightwatch. Membership is not for life and demands that you forfeit your titles. Jaime Lannister is the oldest male heir of Tywin Lannister, thus he is the head of the Lannisters if he chooses so, but he does not. Thus his uncle leads the house in his abscence. Cersei plays her part, but only because he is the mother of the king.

As other people already noted, that's wrong. And yes, being a Kingsguard is for life too. Mechanics-wise the Kingsguard IS the Nightwatch, only with more glamorous parties and less bone-chilling cold. Granted, Jaime could still break his vows and inherit if he felt like it, since he and his sister have (or at least used to have) the Iron Throne under their control, but not without serious repercussions and not without becoming even more hated by everybody else in Westeros.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

As other people already noted, that's wrong. And yes, being a Kingsguard is for life too. Mechanics-wise the Kingsguard IS the Nightwatch, only with more glamorous parties and less bone-chilling cold. Granted, Jaime could still break his vows and inherit if he felt like it, since he and his sister have (or at least used to have) the Iron Throne under their control, but not without serious repercussions and not without becoming even more hated by everybody else in Westeros.

That, and being in the kingsguard makes you candidate for top field command posts in the Iron Throne's armies. It also makes you an influential person at court, with the potential to become a kingmaker if the succession is in dispute within the royal family. (At least one Lord Commander of the kingsguard acted in such a "kingmaker" role during the Targaryen dynasty). It would be nice to have it in, there's lots of potential for fun events, but as others have said it's something for version 2.0 not for 1.0 which should be about the core features (feudal system, titles, wars, claims, inheritance, CBs, initial scenario(s)).

 

[Galaahd]

Hostage of the king? What do you smoke? I want some of that, too!

What would happen to Sir Jim Brown jr, member of the Kingsguard, if Lord Jim Brown sr decides to revolt against the Iron Throne? Come on, it's not hard to imagine.

Yes, they can act as spies, assassins, betrayers, as can everyone at the court. But advisor and hand? Highly unlikely!

A bit different, but

Spoiler

Ser Barristan becomes Dany's Hand

As Game of Throne shows, almost everyone can potentially play a huge role.

Even more a reason to have the Kingsguard in.

 

[vwclaymore]

Yes, they can act as spies, assassins, betrayers, as can everyone at the court. But advisor and hand? Highly unlikely!

I believe that there was one Commander of the Kingsguard that was the King's Hand as well. It's only mentioned in passing though.

 

[CarbrBard]

So we just have to put the kingsguard after the first version. Maybe make then an order who controls a Castle in king's landing and vassal to the king. The other stuff we can fix as we go

 

[yourworstnightm]

I think Grell fixed it by making them an Order with a province so tiny you can't even click on it. I guess it could be a barony in CK 2.

 

[the_hdk]

I think Grell fixed it by making them an Order with a province so tiny you can't even click on it. I guess it could be a barony in CK 2.

yep and be a King-level vassal like the Patriarch is to the Emperor of Constantinople

 

[Galaahd]

So... what to do with seasons? Winter could be potentially lethal. In summers we could have droughts in particular regions.

I wonder if they could be modelled with the epidemic system that was in CK1.

 

[Cabezaestufa]

So... what to do with seasons? Winter could be potentially lethal. In summers we could have droughts in particular regions.

I wonder if they could be modelled with the epidemic system that was in CK1.

I'm assuming there are global flags like in all recent Paradox games. If so, how does something like this sound:

- At any given moment, it will be either Winter or Summer. This will be set as a global flag.
- Each season can be either short, normal, long or extra-long (neverending? legendary?). This will also be represented by a global flag.
- Summer will always be followed by a Winter of the same kind. Short summers will always be followed by short winters, and generation-long Summers will always be followed by horrible, deadly Winters (of course, the first Winter when starting from the beginning will always be one of these).
- After a (mostly fixed) amount of time, which depends on the length of that particular season, a "Winter is Coming" or "The Snows are melting" event will fire. When summer, it will trigger a "White Raven" after a semi-random amount of time (a few years) that will change the season into Winter, of the same kind as the Summer. When winter, it will trigger four different random events with different probabilities/mtth, each one corresponding to the four different lenghts. The one that fires first will determine the kind of Summer that will follow, change the season and prevent the other three from firing. These events will all look the same so the player won't know what awaits him in advance. If possible, these events should be global (I assume there will be global events too, Horde related events will probably be like this in vanilla).

When the right flag is set, one by one all provinces will get nasty modifiers (if Winter) or lose them (if Summer). It should go from North to South in Winter and South to North in Summer (the epidemic mechanics could be useful, as you noted), and probably the modifiers should be worse in the North (and maybe almost non-existant in Dorne, this way we could have a house weak in Summer but strong during Winter, an interesting change of pace). The Northern houses might get special buildings/cultural bonuses to compensate for this, as they are better accustomed to these terrible conditions. These modifiers should hugely decrease the support limit and give a significant hit to manpower and income, at the least.

Winters should also bring special events. For example, I recently had an interesting idea. The world of ASOIAF appears to be extremely stagnant, with hardly any "technological" or cultural advances in centuries. At the same time, their seasons are the other big difference with our own world. What if these are related? Winters, specially long ones, might make provinces "forget" their advances. This way, the technological gains made in the Summer could be partially lost in Winter, and we have a much more "slow" world as a result.

And then of course we have all that nonsense about snarks, grumkins, others and such fairy tales

 

[unmerged(174602)]

I just finished reading book five....a little conflicted on that last Jon chapter, but looking forward to the sequel.

Also looking forward to this mod, I love what I'm reading here.

 

[Hroppa]

Perhaps it would be worth having global modifiers for Autumn and Spring, too (that would obviously be briefer). I can think of events that would be interesting, especially in the autumn, as you have to prepare for the coming winter. Maybe a building that can be built to represent stores, that reduces winter events' damage. Alternatively, that could be buildable during the summer, if having 4 seasons is deemed unnecessary.

A more minor point; I think it shouldn't be possible to know the length of the current summer. That'll introduce a fun element of uncertainty.