Game of Thrones mod

[Jaol]

So, should most provinces have castles and cities only, with only a few having Septs? Or should we just make up more Septs for places where we don't know about them? I'm assuming we're probably going to have to make up a fair number of castles for areas that GRRM hasn't fleshed out as much.

I guess the main question is whether we want to have lots of Septons with holdings. I think I'd lean against that. IIRC, only the most powerful Septons seem to have much money/soldiers/land.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

What will you use the piety mechanism for? Replace it by "Honor" or keep piety?

Would the game work if the player and AI were able to gain piety/honor from granting certain lands to the faith or some other body that takes the place of the catholic church?

 

[Jaol]

I think a general "Honor" mechanism makes the most sense. There are some pious fanatics in the books, but it's not a major theme until the 4th(?) book, and even then, I think it could fairly easily be modeled as a sort of honor.

But I hadn't thought about the mechanic of gaining piety through granting land to the church/military orders. I guess we could use something like that for the Brotherhood without Banners, or Sparrows once a civil war gets going. But I'm not sure how well it would work.

 

[knuckey]

For religious holdings I agree that there should only be a few i.e. in major cities like King's Landing. also there was a sept/religous island that Brienne visited, cant rememebr the name. However if the religious authority of the high septon gets high enough (like if the Iron Throne grants them powers for some spurious reason) then the building of septs should be allowed, I think it would make a good 'what if?' scenario especially if you included lots of events to go with it.

 

[the_hdk]

For religious holdings I agree that there should only be a few i.e. in major cities like King's Landing. also there was a sept/religous island that Brienne visited, cant rememebr the name. However if the religious authority of the high septon gets high enough (like if the Iron Throne grants them powers for some spurious reason) then the building of septs should be allowed, I think it would make a good 'what if?' scenario especially if you included lots of events to go with it.

yep I agree. a decision that could increase the power of it. etc etc. still something we should plan for but only work on after the basics are there

but that means we cant change piety to honor. (tbh im ok with that)

what about knighthood. it was a big thing in the books. grell added that as a trait. should we too? IMO it would be awesome. especially if in some way the trait would add the prefix of 'Ser'

 

[unmerged(75409)]

yep I agree. a decision that could increase the power of it. etc etc. still something we should plan for but only work on after the basics are there

but that means we cant change piety to honor. (tbh im ok with that)

what about knighthood. it was a big thing in the books. grell added that as a trait. should we too? IMO it would be awesome. especially if in some way the trait would add the prefix of 'Ser'

Ser is only for those characters who don't have any other titles. You never heard anyone call Tywin Lannister or Robert Baratheon Ser, do you? Although they certainly were anointed knights as well.

 

[the_hdk]

Ser is only for those characters who don't have any other titles. You never heard anyone call Tywin Lannister or Robert Baratheon Ser, do you? Although they certainly were anointed knights as well.

yes the titles like King, Lord or Prince are above but anyone not a knight may not be called that

 

[unmerged(75409)]

yes the titles like King, Lord or Prince are above but anyone not a knight may not be called that

What do you mean, anyone not a knight can not be called King, Lord or Prince? Ned Stark was not a knight but he was certainly a lord.

 

[the_hdk]

What do you mean, anyone not a knight can not be called King, Lord or Prince? Ned Stark was not a knight but he was certainly a lord.

I meant Ser only Knights can be called Ser. For instance Littlefinger is not a one.

King Lord etc overrule Ser

 

[knuckey]

yep I agree. a decision that could increase the power of it. etc etc. still something we should plan for but only work on after the basics are there

Of course, I dont think it hurts to bandy ideas about though

Perhaps we could request a sub-forum so we can start on organising ideas/planning? This thread is quite large already...

 

[the_hdk]

Of course, I dont think it hurts to bandy ideas about though

Perhaps we could request a sub-forum so we can start on organising ideas/planning? This thread is quite large already...

we should wait for the game to come out

 

[Andrzej I]

Ned Stark was not a knight but he was certainly a lord.

That's because he didn't follow the Faith, which is a part of knighthood in Westeros

That said, I wouldn't include Knighthood as a trait. It's entirely too common, unless one is a maester or a septon. You don't really see too many non-maester, non-septon followers of the Faith.

 

[the_hdk]

That's because he didn't follow the Faith, which is a part of knighthood in Westeros

That said, I wouldn't include Knighthood as a trait. It's entirely too common, unless one is a maester or a septon. You don't really see too many non-maester, non-septon followers of the Faith.

well I diagree. We could bound it to events. its easier than checking persons faith all the time.

 

[Jaol]

yep I agree. a decision that could increase the power of it. etc etc. still something we should plan for but only work on after the basics are there

but that means we cant change piety to honor. (tbh im ok with that)

I don't think it automatically rules out using the piety mechanics for honor. We might be able to say that being pious (giving land to the church etc.) is one way to gain honor. If there's some hard-coded connection between piety and religious authority, then it would be harder, but I'm not sure there is something like that.

I wonder how much it will be possible to change what religious authority does. There don't seem to really be any heresies in GRRM's world, so the low authority = heresy mechanic won't be that useful. But I guess we can just not have any heresies, and then it won't matter. I really like the idea of using religious authority as a trigger for things like building new septs or events relating to the Poor Sparrows. I guess we'll just have to see how moddable it will be.

 

[Andrzej I]

well I diagree. We could bound it to events. its easier than checking persons faith all the time.

Fair enough, I guess. Shall we have it so that 'knight' is added to followers of the Faith who are: a) of a sufficient age (over 18?), and b) not maesters or septons?

 

[Jaol]

Fair enough, I guess. Shall we have it so that 'knight' is added to followers of the Faith who are: a) of a sufficient age (over 18?), and b) not maesters or septons?

That seems like the simplest system. If we wanted to get more complex, maybe we could have some system where they first become squires, then get knighted. IIRC the education system is set up so most characters will be wards of some other character at one point or another. Perhaps male wards of a certain age = squires, or character become squires after they complete their education. Then after a few years in some court as a squire they become a full knight.

 

[Nick B II]

Heresies don't really make much sense in the Westeros. There's no central authority with police powers to enforce Orthodoxy, so somebody who thinks the Septon is an idiot is just gonna be a guy who thinks the Septon is an idiot.

With the High Septon's recently gained powers that will probably change in the next books.

Nick

 

[Jaol]

With the High Septon's recently gained powers that will probably change in the next books.

Good point. I'm thinking the best solution will be to have no heresies at all in the mod for now, and we can add some if/when GRRM has the high septon become a grand inquisitor.

On the subject of religion, I know it's been discussed before, but how do we want to set up the religions/groups? I'm thinking the Seven and the Old Gods should probably be in the same group, and R'hollor should be a separate group. What about the Drowned God? On the one hand, it's as alien as Rhollor to the "mainstream" Westerosi faiths; on the other, I don't remember the same level of hostility between it and the Seven as there is between the Seven and Rhollor. I'm thinking a separate group makes the most sense, but don't allow holy wars between the groups.

In fact, I'm thinking we should get rid of the holy war CB altogether, or restrict it to the followers of Rhollor only. As for crusades, again, I think only Rhollor should have them.

What about heads of religion? The High Septon fits the Catholic/Orthodox mechanics well, but none of the other religions have obvious heads. Should they all just use the pagan mechanics, or should we designate someone as the head of the religion. I could see Stannis or Mel being the head of the Rhollor religion, so perhaps Muslim mechanics, where a secular ruler with a claim to be Azor Ahai is the head of the religion.

 

[Nick B II]

At the start I'd say everybody but Rhollor should be in the same religion group. Call it Westeroi. Make the Drowned God and Old God folks basically pagans who happen to share a religion-group with the more-or-less Orthodox Christian Faith of the Seven.

Allowing the Faith of the Seven to Catholicize itself under book-like conditions should be possible. Perhaps a weak King gets an event granting power to the High Septon in exchange for certain advantages, which triggers an event converting the Septon himself to the new religion, which allows everyone in the realms to decide whether they'll go with the new ways or the old?

It's the only way I can think of to simulate the rapid change in that faith. But if you guys thought dragons were a waste of time...

I'm not sure we can do any more detailed work on religion yet. We can all guess where GRRM is going but none of us really know.

BTW, has anybody thought about how we'd simulate winter vs. summer?

Nick

 

[Andrzej I]

For what it's worth, with the dragons, the addition of battle tactics seems to make dragons more plausible. Even if we'll still have people fighting on in vain against the Targaryens, risking the odds that they won't go up against Dragons (+9999% Attack).