Game is all messed up, worse is diplomatics ...

[unmerged(11723)]

Quick question. If the game is as bad as IceDust says then since I've never owned a Paradox product before will the patches make the game what we've all thought it would be?

I'll rely on those who've seen Paradox support a game.

 

[eklipzx]

Originally posted by LWPJMB
Quick question. If the game is as bad as IceDust says then since I've never owned a Paradox product before will the patches make the game what we've all thought it would be?

I'll rely on those who've seen Paradox support a game.

After some patches (1-2 ?) the game will be great. No doubt what so ever about that.

 

[eklipzx]

Re: Re: Game is all messed up, worse is diplomatics ...

Originally posted by Smiffus
Thanks man, this comment made all the effort we put in it worth it.

Well, are YOU satisfied with your effort?
Can you say that you have tested the game to the extent it cannot be more tested?

If you have done that, the problem isn't going to be solved by patches, then the game itself is a big bug.

It should have gone through some major testing and bug fixing before it was released. The diplomatic system doesnt work at all ... Some countrys is way to powerful, there is no meaning playing as the Axis, you'll crush anyone, anytime. There is dozen of issues I found after just a couple of hours of gameplay.


// ID

 

[Steel]

Originally posted by IceDust
Hmm, the thing wasnt that Sweden declared war upon USA. It was that Sweden on BEHALF of the allies declared war upon USA, and therfor dragged UK, Canada and some other nations to war with USA.

I dont want a complete historical game. That would be boring. We all know how the WW2 ended right?

What I do want is a working diplomatic system.

This is a fair point and a lot better reasoned than "It don't seem to be working at all" I agree that - for example - if it's in the UK's interest to withdraw from an alliance with Sweden rather than honour a declaration of war against the US (it typically should be!) then they should do so. This was certainly present in EU/EU2.

 

[unmerged(11723)]

I really like how beta's make their little comments too IceDust about his opinion. If he's wrong, and I would not know because my preorder is somewhere in mail hell, then set him straight.

If he's right the shut up and fix the game. It's a very simple issue to speak about. Let's not let a beta's feeling of loyalty to Paradox cloud the issue.

 

[Warlimont]

It does seem from the number of posts regarding the AI, that work needs to be done there, and soon.
But this thread looks like it been pulled at enough and isn't accomplishing anything constructive.

Ice Dust, as a programmer, you probably should now list those areas where you feel improvement needs immediate work and submit the list in the appropriate area of the forum.

Here's a related question. How many other wars/skirmishes occured during the time period other than the big one we all know about. Someone mentioned a war between chile and equador.
What if the AI were reprogrammed to do away with these random totally goofy wars such as Finland attacking Brazil, unless it really had occured. However, if you were playing as Finland and felt the need to see Rio, you could iniatate a war with Brazil.

Personally, I intend to see what hacking I can do with Word Pad to tweak what I can.

 

[Vynd]

I think that IceDust's complaints are definitely valid, and I agree with him for the most part. The game definitely has many flaws, both from a bug standpoint and a design standpoint. One way to highlight this is imagine what the game will be like for someone who doesn't think to find this forum and visit it every day. Even after days of writing back and forth here there are still many aspects of the game that no one seems to be able to figure out. Without this forum, the game would be extremely difficult to play. So how good/complete can the game be, if you're constantly doing what amounts to calling tech support?

IceDust is right to say that we are essentially testing the game for Paradox. I don't blame the Betas for this, I am sure they complained mightily about some of the same things we are upset about now. Which makes me all the more pessimistic that they will be fixed. <sigh> I mean, I am sure that Paradox will fix the bugs reasonably fast, but as to whether they will change design elements that many of us seem to dislike, such as the economic and diplomatic systems, and the typical performance of the AIs, that I don't know.

 

[Mad Max]

I don't wanna think Paradox made us pay for a beta release and used us as "paying beta-testers".
As an evidence I'm gonna buy the NA version anyway, but Paradox developers you should have only one concern in the next weeks and until a decent game patch is reached:

....fixing, fixing, fixing and fixing. OK you can eat (rarely) and maybe go to the toilet, be aware though: sleeping's not allowed and forget about Christmas 2002

Have a nice trip...

 

[eklipzx]

I might have gone a little to far in my critisism against the betas yes. BUT still the game shipped with obvious bugs and flaws I discovered after a couple of hours gameplay.

Now I don't know the exact numbers of testers, but it seems it wasnt enough. Either it was to few people testing the game or it was to little time to test it. Whatever reason it was, I hope Paradox doesn't repeat this mistake cause I'm a big fan of their games and will for sure buy their future products.


// ID

 

[Soapy Frog]

The points that Icedust are making are completely valid.

They are problems with the game that should be addressed.

No one can say that the problems that he and others have mentioned are things we should reasonably expect.

I love this game already, but more for the potential it represents rather than the state it is in now... that potential can only be fulfilled by continued work by Paradox and the beta team.

Thansk in advance for you continued support!

 

[eklipzx]

Originally posted by Warlimont
IceDust, as a programmer, you probably should now list those areas where you feel improvement needs immediate work and submit the list in the appropriate area of the forum.

As I said in an earlier post, I've paid $40 to be their beta tester. I don't wanna throw my money away without getting something in return, so yes I'm gonna do some extensive testing. But most of the bug and flaws I've reacted on so far is already spoken about.

Improvements of the diplomatic system is a "must-do". Thats the part that make the game look like it was still in the beta stage.

Other things is having Japanese carriers creating havoc in the Baltic sea ... it just aint fun. And Spain occupying parts of Sweden ... Well, that might be my national pride that screams


// ID

 

[unmerged(5097)]

Originally posted by LWPJMB
Quick question. If the game is as bad as IceDust says then since I've never owned a Paradox product before will the patches make the game what we've all thought it would be?

I'll rely on those who've seen Paradox support a game.

To my experience, Paradox is the best company when it comes to support and patches post-release. They even beat Blizzard in this, which I say is a damn big compliment.

 

[Soapy Frog]

The points that Icedust are making are completely valid.

They are problems with the game that should be addressed.

No one can say that the problems that he and others have mentioned are things we should reasonably expect.

I love this game already, but more for the potential it represents rather than the state it is in now... that potential can only be fulfilled by continued work by Paradox and the beta team.

Thansk in advance for you continued support!

 

[Maximilian I]

Re: Game is all messed up, worst is diplomatics ...

Originally posted by IceDust
It don't seem to be working at all ...

I played the -39 scenario, and finally UK offered me to join the Allies, which I did. Now I could take control of UK and all the others Allies forces. I could also as Sweden declare war upon USSR and USA on behalf of the allies, which resulted in a war Axis vs Allies vs Commies vs USA. C'mon guys ... wtf?

And? what gives? isn´t it you, who breaks the game? or is it the game? there are people, who want to play an ahistoric game, and some who not. if you want to play a historic game, just play one. the Allied AI doesn`t DoW the soviet union.

"Military control" is primarily a feature for MP games. An example would be for the Australian and UK player to team up. The Australian player would then control the pacific theater, the UK player the European theater. If you don`t like it, don`t use it. Because this tools can be used to break the game (in a historical sense) doesn´t mean, that you are forced to do it. it`s about options, you know ...

Originally posted by IceDust
Axis is way too owerpowered, they win EVERY game. USSR get its arse kicked 10 out of 10 times.
// ID

yes, and we`re working on it.

Originally posted by IceDust
This game has HUGE potential, it will be best WW2 strategy game of all time IF some serious AI tweaking....

// ID

yes.

 

[eklipzx]

Maximilian I,

About taking control of the military forces of UK wasnt that much of a deal. What disturbed me most is that I could on behalf of the Allies declare war upon USA. If the diplomatic system would have been better, UK would have kicked me (Sweden) out of the Allies instead of going into war vs USA. UK is the leader of the Allies, they should decide who to wage war against and when. Not a minor ally such as Sweden.

 

[King]

As a beta let me make a few comments here. Did I wish for one more weak just to tweak a few things test a few things etc. etc.? Of course I do. Did I do nothing during the beta? Please do not insult me. Many of the betas gave up days of the lives for this project an =d many things were added to the game that imporved it because of this. There was also the disapointment of the really cool ideas which never made it into the game.

as for the problems personally some of you guys are tring things that I would of never thought to do. This is obvoluosly causing bugs to be found that the Betas would not of thought of discovering in a million years.

Sadly these things will take time. I am disapointed that some of you are unhappy with the result but why start insulting people on the forum? Will that really make it a better game?

 

[unmerged(11642)]

I think the general impression is that beta testing should have lasted much longer - which is fair enough - not that the beta testers were poor. I also think that the game would work much better as a turn-based game, because of its complexity.

I hope Johan is reading this!

 

[Generalisimo]

Originally posted by Kaisertreue
I also think that the game would work much better as a turn-based game, because of its complexity.

I hope Johan is reading this!

no, personally i buy this game (and EU and EU2) because they are in REAL TIME, not TURNS.

if you want turns go and buy CIV3

 

[Sam Vimes]

ok for what I've read the game needs some tweaking and could have been released a month later...

but how many of the people complaining didn't complain about the delay whe the game was postponed from early November, till now?

I can understand people having a hard time paying $40 for a game not completely finished... but as far as I'm concerned I'm pleased it is finally of, even if it's not perfect. I prefer to play now with a game which improves by the day, than wait six months drooling about it and reading thousand posts about "why this delay" or "I want it in my country first"...

Thanks Johan and the Betas for the nice work and good luck for the following months (we really need those patches )

 

[Javaslinger]

This is same hypocritical discussion that goes on after every game is released.

How many of you were whining about how long the game took to come out?? How many of you whined about the extra week you had to wait because of the publishing issues?

I can only imagine what would have happened is paradox came out and delayed the game for a month or two for 'further testing'.

Riots! Panic! Anarchy!

Frankly, I'm happy to be a 'beta tester'. I'd rather play with it while it's tweaked and deliver input and watch it grow.

How many of you say time and time again, oooh, how I wish I could be a beta tester??? Oooh, they're so lucky.....

Well, now's your damn chance! Be constructive for the love of god!

So you paid for the game a month early! Whoopdeedoo!

Think of it as a 'pre-order'.

Now I'm gonna shut up and get back to some serious fun beta testing the bad boy!

Ken

p.s. Great job you real beta testers! I love it so far. I may just spooge in my pants when this puppy is in full working order!

and thanks for all the AAR's that kept us alive while waiting!