Game freezes

[unmerged(22026)]

I play Japan scenario 1936. Untill august 1940 i had no problems at all. But suddenly in august 1940 the game freezes. I also cant load resent savegames (normal or autosave doesnt make a difference). So I did go back a few savegames and 1 of them worked. HoI runs fine again, but freezes exactly 1 month of playing after loading the savegame.
Example: I load a savegame of august 15; 1 am. The game will freeze again at september 15 1 am.
I have no clue what might cause this. I have no programs running in the background.

 

[Castellon]

Let's move you to the Bug forum and see if that date rings a bell.
*Moved

 

[unmerged(14628)]

Game Freeze

I had a similar problem. I have played Argentina twice, and both times the game froze around the end of 1940 (I have the save file; I can check the date). I reloaded and the game continues to freeze at the same point. Note the game doesn't hang up, the clock just stops ticking. I can still click on pieces and such but everthing comes to a dead stop.

Last time I played when it froze I noticed that no other country was at war, except for the ones at war with me (mostly the commonwealth). So I saved the game; reloaded as Germany, declared war on the the Sovs and on Poland, saved and then went back to Argentina. I thought perhaps there was a problem with an event not firing, but it didn't help. The game froze again at the same point.

I am using a clean install with the 1.06 patch and no other downloads.

 

[jjdiddy]

I play Japan scenario 1936. Untill august 1940 i had no problems at all. But suddenly in august 1940 the game freezes. I also cant load resent savegames (normal or autosave doesnt make a difference). So I did go back a few savegames and 1 of them worked. HoI runs fine again, but freezes exactly 1 month of playing after loading the savegame.
Example: I load a savegame of august 15; 1 am. The game will freeze again at september 15 1 am.
I have no clue what might cause this. I have no programs running in the background.

I just came on the board to post this exact problem. I played Germany from start to finish with no problems at all. I actually thought how much the stability had improved in 1.06.

I then played a new campaign as Japan. All was well until my computer locked up at Sep 1 1940.

I rebooted, tried again from Aug 1st(My last auto save). Locked up again at Sep 1.

So I tried a new campaign as Italy. Sep 1, 1940 and my computer locks up.

I had a reload from Aug 12, 1940 so I reloaded . As soon as it finished loading, it locked up again.

That is now 2 games lost in a row at exactly Sep1, 1940.

Please Help!!

 

[unmerged(27956)]

Another "game freeze" person here.

Jay, I think the key is that your problem occurs exactly 30 days after your save. jjdiddy, try saving on August 2, load the save, then run it and see if it fails on September 2 rather than September 1st. I think what's happening is sometime between the save game date and the freeze, some game situation changes that triggers a 30-day event. It checks events when you load the game, then every x days after, where x depends on the events. There are a number of events (particularly AI events) which are checked every 30 days.

My problem is in August 1942, rather than 1940. I know that up to August 5 I can save and if I reload I'm fine...for 30 days. Any save on or after August 16 freezes immediately on reload. I haven't gotten around to trying to save every day and see if I can narrow it down yet. However, on August 9, France puppets Vichy France. Well, it happens that event 10735 basically says "if France (or one of her allies) ever puppets Vichy France, give Vichy territory back to France". The event looks normal enough, but I'm thinking that somehow it's triggering an infinite loop.

OK, I just took the time to run a bunch of saves. A save four hours before puppeting loads fine. A save right after puppetting freezes when I try and load. So somehow that event seems to be bugged -- perhaps the "inherit" command has problems.

So my question to you two is -- does anything significant happen during those 30 days? Anexation, puppeting, war, peace, even technological advances might trigger some bugged event.

 

[unmerged(27956)]

One thing I wanted to add in clarification -- when I say freeze, the whole game freezes, not just the clock. I can't move the cursor, it doesn't respond to keypresses, and I have to kill the task. This is different than what RonnieS is reporting.

 

[Vulture]

If the lockup is reproducable on a date, I need a savegame as close to that date as you can get.

Mail it to my addy please.

 

[jjdiddy]

One thing I wanted to add in clarification -- when I say freeze, the whole game freezes, not just the clock. I can't move the cursor, it doesn't respond to keypresses, and I have to kill the task. This is different than what RonnieS is reporting.

My "freeze" is a complete computer lockup. I need to hold the power button and reboot. I have never had to do this before for any reason with this computer.

 

[unmerged(9454)]

The same here. I'm playing Germany 1936. I get to November or December 1941 and the games freezes. The music keeps playing. I have multiple saved games with different names. I tried to reload the saved game that froze and it was still in frozen state when the snenario loaded (yes, I restarted pc). I then load a backup saved gave under a different name and play for about 2 months til i get to December 8, 1941 and the games freezes. So, I reload a third saved backup game under a different name and play til November 14, 1941 and it freezes, each time the music keeps playing and I have to manually cutoff the pc. Keyboard reboot doesn't respond. VERY Frustrating!!!

Just as info, this was a fresh install and patched to 1.6.

My computer specs:
P4 3.2
XP professional
1 gig ram
GeForce 5950
SB Audigy 2 Platinum Pro
I have all the lates drivers and everyting is direct x compliant

PS - this game still seems very BUGGY! What a shame, I like the game... But can't ever get close to completing one....

 

[jpd]

My "freeze" is a complete computer lockup. I need to hold the power button and reboot. I have never had to do this before for any reason with this computer.

A complete freeze cannot be caused directly with application code, not even a DirectX game.

A complete freeze means that the processor either stopped with executing instructions, or interrupts got disabled within a device driver, and subsequently entered an endless loop inside that driver. With disabled interrupts, there is no way to regain control over the machine through methods that rely on interrupts (like pressing ctrl-alt-del).

Note that there is one way that prevents a CPU from executing instructions without actually halting the CPU, and that is the infamous 'infinite loop' problem with the AGP subsystem. Through inaccurate programming (or even a bug), it is possible to create a deadlock situation in the memory controller of your system, where neither the CPU nor the graphics card are capable nor allowed to release claims on the memory controller, effectively blocking each other from continuing. The net effect is that the CPU cannot retrieve fresh instructions from memory to execute, not even in response to interrupts.

In all the above cases: The problem isn't HoI, but your drivers/hardware combination. Application code isn't allowed to directly access the AGP subsystem, not can application code disable interrupts. The ring 3 code level in which application code is executed, prevents this. If you were to try to execute such instructions at ring 3, the CPU would throw an exception in your face, and you would get the default Paradox games response, which is a CtD.

Edit: The only thing you can conclude here, if you never experienced it before, is that HoI 1.06 stresses your system a bit harder that before, and that now the problem surfaces. The problem itself, however, has always been present in your system. It just has never been triggered before.

Jan Peter

 

[unmerged(9454)]

Well, I'm not an expert here. But I have to disagree with CPU part. I played numerous computer games on this system and I've never experienced one single problem or crash with any of the other games. This incudes BF1942 and Far Cry which are system hogs! I've played HOI on my older Dell system and still experienced CTD's and some freezes. It just appears to me that HOI, EU2 are still very buggy even after numerous patches (just my opinion)... I'm not here to flame I just don't agree with CPU being the problem....

Like I said, I'm not an expert but thanks for your input anyways...

PS - It's time to uninstall HOI and move on... (maybe the next patch will address the issues)... :wacko:

 

[jpd]

I didn't say that it was.

There is a known issue with AGP implementations, which Microsoft has named the 'Infinite loop'. It involves the GPU on the AGP video board and the north bridge of the mainboard's chipset, which controls access to the system memory.

When this issue surfaces, then the AGP video board and the memory controller bounce a piece of information back and forth between the video board and the north bridge. The end result is that the CPU can no longer access the main memory, and thus cannot load new instructions to execute. Which ultimately results in a frozen system. As you read this carefully, you will notice it has nothing to do with the CPU itself.

Jan Peter

 

[jjdiddy]

I didn't say that it was.

There is a known issue with AGP implementations, which Microsoft has named the 'Infinite loop'. It involves the GPU on the AGP video board and the north bridge of the mainboard's chipset, which controls access to the system memory.

When this issue surfaces, then the AGP video board and the memory controller bounce a piece of information back and forth between the video board and the north bridge. The end result is that the CPU can no longer access the main memory, and thus cannot load new instructions to execute. Which ultimately results in a frozen system. As you read this carefully, you will notice it has nothing to do with the CPU itself.

Jan Peter

Wow, that post is so over my head it hit me in the ass.


If my problem is this AGP loop, is there anything I can do about it?

I have a p4 2.2 Ghz Dell Inspiron 8500 with an Nvidia 64M Video card.

I have 768 RAM as well. I was under the impression that this was more than sufficient for HOI

Thanks for that very detailed reply.

 

[jjdiddy]

If the lockup is reproducable on a date, I need a savegame as close to that date as you can get.

Mail it to my addy please.

I emailed you four save games suffering this problem Yesterday. Let me know if you didn't get them

 

[jdrou]

Wow, that post is so over my head it hit me in the ass.


If my problem is this AGP loop, is there anything I can do about it?

I have a p4 2.2 Ghz Dell Inspiron 8500 with an Nvidia 64M Video card.

I have 768 RAM as well. I was under the impression that this was more than sufficient for HOI

Thanks for that very detailed reply.

Worth checking with Dell to make sure your chipset and video drivers and video BIOS are up to date and if they are maybe try an older video driver. You might try doing an advanced search on the forum for posts by jpd containing "infinite loop" for more suggestions until he posts here again (some of the tweaks may not be possible on your machine since Dell and notebooks in general give you less control over BIOS settings). Note your motherboard chipset is Intel where most of the problems seem to be with VIA chipsets.

 

[unmerged(9454)]

10-4 jpd. I appreciate the information even though most of it's over my head... I guess I'll just have to stay away from Paradox titles considering these are the only ones I seem to have trouble with...

Adios!

 

[jdrou]

10-4 jpd. I appreciate the information even though most of it's over my head... I guess I'll just have to stay away from Paradox titles considering these are the only ones I seem to have trouble with...

Adios!

Don't give up yet. Try older drivers, changing BIOS settings, etc. as I suggested above. Paradox games are worth the trouble.

 

[jpd]

10-4 jpd. I appreciate the information even though most of it's over my head... I guess I'll just have to stay away from Paradox titles considering these are the only ones I seem to have trouble with...

Adios!

Well, when you get hit with the infinite loop, it's usually more or less random with which (game) title this happens. For me, it was Civ3, Soldier of Fortune II, Never Winter Nights and Age of Mythology. The Paradox titles ran perfectly stable.

As the infinite loop problem involves a very specific set of circumstances to come together at a particular time, it's highly timing dependant. Each mainboard/video board/operating system/game produces a highly unique timing characteristic, so you cannot predict when it will happen. Even when two PC's are seemingly identical on the surface, it's possible that one gets hit with the problem, while the other does not.

But, some general tips can be provided.

* In the BIOS, try disabling AGP fast write and/or AGP sidebanding.
* Alter the AGP aperture size, choose any setting no less than 16 MB and no more than half the amount of RAM installed. My preferred setting is 32 MB, but it depends on how much (or little) RAM is installed on your video board. Less RAM on the video board implies a bigger size for the AGP Aperture.
* Try various driver versions. Especially consider using older versions. Older versions are generally less optimized, therefore slower, and thus have a less intense use of the AGP interface.
* Consider using the default Microsoft GART driver, instead of the one that came with your chipset/mainboard. The default Microsoft one is slower and less optimized for your chipset, but very stable.
* The Power Supply Unit in your PC case maybe lacking. When you combine a modern, fast, processor like a P4 with a reasonably modern video board, then you demand a lot from the PSU. It's recommended that the PSU must be able to provide at least 20 Amps combined on the 3.3 and 5 Volt rails. If the PSU cannot deliver that (and most no-name 300 Watt cannot), then the 5 Volt and 3 Volt rails become unstable and the voltage fluctuates. The approved tolerances are a mere 5%, meaning that a 3.3 Volt rail is only allowed to drop to 3.135 Volt. Below that the stable operation can no longer be guaranteed. Note that a lot runs off the 3.3 Volt rail, amongst them are the CPU, your RAM and your AGP video board. When the AGP chip doesn't receive it's min level on the 3.3 vol rail, it's operating system can crash. That too can cause the infinite loop, albeit through a different reason. The chipset send commands and data, and expects a response. If the AGP board has crashed, than that response will not come, resulting again in deadlock.

Jan Peter

 

[ringworm]

why would it fall over? i can play from 36- 41 why does it crash then what has changed?!!! Why is the saved game file frozen? what is in it which courses it to freeze? I can save near to the crash a few times and then reload and play past the previous freeze but it will soon freeze again sometime later (1-5 weeks(game time)) I use a 2.6 PIV radeon 9600 .5gig Ram plenty of power for this game, latest drivers an xp instal only a few week s old!!!(useing version 1.6).

 

[X_MasterDave_X]

Sorry jpd, i can also confirm this error as a bug in HoI. As Cyjon said, this errors occurs when the Ai trys to puppet vichy france. After seeing vichy territory gone back to france territory, there are only some days until the game freezes. And not only that, i had also an computer freeze here. First time in a paradox game....wow !!!.

I must say that i know the problems of the "infinite loop" error very good, because as i bought my system (before 2 years) (A 2Gz Pentium 1GB Ram) i had many times "infinite loops" and read much about this error in the VIA Forums. By the way i have no VIA Chipset, i have a stable Intel Chipset. But the problem occured at almost all 3d-Games after gaming some time. Ive played nearly 30 differt Games on my PC, and most of that 3d-games crashed after some time. Jedi Knight 2 after 1 hour, Empire Earth after 2 hours, Mafia after 15 minutes, other 3d-Games after 2-3 minutes. The better the graphics (or better to say, the harder the graphic card worked) the sooner the error.

I found out, that my source of this infinite loop error, was a thermal problem in my pc (Checked it with a thermal monitor software). Maybe because my craphic card (Geforce Ti 4200) was only bad cooled. After installing 4 great Air blowing fans....the problem was over. Now my PC is loud like an attacking Stuka, but my system is absolutely stable. I could play now 6 hours in the haeviest 3d-games without any problem.

But now, we talk here about a 2d-game, without any possibilities for graphic card overheatings. But HoI is now my first "infinite loop" error after the Install of my 4 Powerfans, before 1 1/2 Years.

And its only if i have this event firing...... vichy goes back to france.....

So please dont tell me my hardware is the victim of this new Problem. I cant believe it. There is sure a error in the event code....or i the new Vicky code who was implemented in HOI now.

We are talking of a hardware freeze here. This means the PC could only be stopped, by pushing the power-button.

For all others who had the same problem here, please look if your game freezes after vichy gone back to france....you notice it, if you see southern france with blue colours in political mode. Yes and i can confirm also that the save game, was defect. After reloading, i played only a few days, and it "looped infinite" again in my PC. To bad...i killed the save game before 3 days. Ive played as argentina in a handsoff game....looking how good the new 1.06 Ai is. Bad, that the looking ended here in 1940.....

First time ever I saw a Paradox game, killing my PC....wow !!!!! No time to be proud of that, boys.

To solve this problem....I think its a bad idea to puppet a puppet. So please stop the AI in trying puppeting vichy france....who is a puppet of germany !!!!