Game Development - Imperator and PDS

[znudzony]

Doesnt' change the fact that the final product is bland and unatractive. Don't be surprised people are not excited if you're not offering them anything exciting.
All the dev diaries and gameplay videos were showing that the game will be bad. Doesn't mean people should simply accept it, they can voice their opinion and say what they think. We just hold you guys to a much higher standard then that.
Also current DLC policy is finally paying its debt. Took awhile but its finally happening.

 

[Dindomir Eagleshield]

I am very glad to see that you are openly communicating with the players. We need more posts like this for other games as well.

 

[Daztek]

It's nice that you write to us fans.
Most of the other famous game directors of the big studios like GabeN from Valve and Sid Meier from Firaxis doesnt interact with their fans as much as you do.

Or even small ones. Try posting on the SCS forum, SCS makes ETS2 and ATS. Anything that's not fawning praise fails the pre-moderation (!)

 

[Bogus]

We talked about this a bit today, something even we tend to forget is that most people didn't buy CK2 or EU4, or even the later two games at launch, they got them afterwards. Very few people were there for CK2's launch and even less remember it without some form of rosy nostalgia. But we'll work on making sure we get information across better, we've been talking about the game for months and streaming it weekly, we clearly need to step it up though so people don't come into a new launch with the wrong expectations.

Well I was there, when CK2 was launched and bought the game quite from the start. I still can remember the starting "vanilla" game quite clearly. Of course, you did have some more Time Periods, but more or less you were just able to play a dynasty from the game. There were no "flavor" Thingies like Hobbies, many events, Focusses (or is it Foci?) etc. You even could not play anything else except christian rulers. There were no Islam and or Barbaric Nations to be played. This was all stuff that had to be added later on in some DLC. Basically the only thing in CK2 you could do from the start was play a christian Ruler and conquer the world for shit and giggles. But that was ok!

Is Imperator still unpolished? Of course, it is. I'd bet my last cent that, if asked the Team would have loved to put so many more stuff into the game before release, that it would make all our mouths water. You might ask, why didn't they? Well, the reason is quite easy I'd say. It is about the money. Now before everybody starts rageing on about money in games n stuff, PDS is neither a NGO nor is it a social Service. It is a company that needs money to do its job. That means PDS has given the Team a budget of XY kr and they have to finish the game with this budget, if they want to sell the game for the price it is sold later. Of course, they could increase their work on the game and put more stuff in it but then the starting price would have to go up as well.

On steam there is a series of World War 2 Simulations, where you can play the Winterwar on the Eastern Front and in the Pacific Theatre I think. If you read their reviews, the gamers are all very, very, very happy about all the features, the possabilites, the in depth etc. But then you take a look at the price. I think its somewhere around 150 - 200 €. I seriously can't see people willing to buy their Imperator game for 150 €, can you?

Lastly, I am a gamer as well of course, so yes, I would have loved much more features in Imperator from the start, but I can quite understand, like Johan said, why they did, what they did. To be honest, I had much, much worse Releases. Seriously, much worse... So overall, I think the release was a good one. Much more interesting, at least for me, is going to be, if PDS is willing to support the game for as long as they have for their other games. That, much more then a 1a Game with 1.000 Features added to release, tell me about the quality of a gaming studio.

PS: Sorry for the wall of text

 

[Everesting]

Thanks Johan, I'm loving the game and think the release version is a solid game, obviously with plenty of room for development and I'm excited for the future features that you road-mapped, but I still think it was solid enough for release, and super fun! I understand other people's perspective but just wanted to add that I think you guys did great and look forward to how this game develops! You guys always seem to find a way to navigate through the opinions and create better versions of your games. I love the amount of research and attention each time period gets in your games. I blows my mind and I appreciate your work greatly. Thanks!

 

[hermithill]

Thanks for clarification Johan.
The game works fine for me and I like it. I would just have liked something original and totally new compared to CK, EU, Victoria and Stellaris. There was trade goods management in EU: Rome, but I find it less interesting in Imperator.

 

[jecjackal]

Thank you for the clarity Johan. I have played Imperator for about 10-15 hours so far, and I am really enjoying it. Sure there are bugs and some features that may need polishing, but that comes with grand strategy/4x games. I saw the comment about Blizzard titles, and I can say with 100% certainty that StarCraft is a fraction of the complexity of your titles. You're absolutely right that given this is a niche market, you don't have the luxury to indefinitely wait for a release.

I look forward to the 1.1 patch, especially the dual consuls and other wonderful additions you make to the game.

 

[Rabid]

Yes it was added in after alpha to reduce micromanagement of governors.

This was a great idea - having a separate governor for each province would have been hideous.

 

[Thure]

Your games are very high on Steam's yearly top seller listings, on level with games with far larger dev teams.

Yes, but most people buy Paradox games on sales, when they can get the games for few money.

 

[gekj]

Treat your games like Blizzard : "we will release it when it's done" and you won't have to make justifying post like this ever again.

diablo 3 lol.

You could said CDprojekt, but blizzard is definitely not a good example

 

[MaXimillion]

Yes, but most people buy Paradox games on sales, when they can get the games for few money.

Those rankings are based on total earnings, not numbers sold.

 

[Cyhort]

I disagree. CK2, on release, was far ahead of other PDX titles of that time, and EU4 was comparable. No nostalgia needed to appreciate that.

CK2, on release, had about half the map unplayable unless you bought the Islam DLC. And IIRC that wasn't even available at launch, though I could be wrong. People savaged CK2 for that when it came out, and rightfully so. And that's not even getting into the usual launch bugs. Compared to CK2, I:R was mostly smooth and feature complete, since it launched with the ability to do everything it said, and doesn't have large sections of the map that are unplayable by the player.

 

[Immortal Impi]

CK2, on release, had about half the map unplayable unless you bought the Islam DLC. And IIRC that wasn't even available at launch, though I could be wrong. People savaged CK2 for that when it came out, and rightfully so. And that's not even getting into the usual launch bugs. Compared to CK2, I:R was mostly smooth and feature complete, since it launched with the ability to do everything it said, and doesn't have large sections of the map that are unplayable by the player.

The Islam DLC was not available until several months later.

 

[Ellye]

Compared to CK2, I:R was mostly smooth and feature complete, since it launched with the ability to do everything it said, and doesn't have large sections of the map that are unplayable by the player.

What good is it to have them be playable but being exactly the same?

If CK2 launched with playable Islam factions, but they played 100% exactly the same as Christian factions, it would have been criticized for that as well.

 

[cristofolmc]

Johan, isn't it unwise to make new features and content to appease the community and have them ready when you havent still even heard the community feedback? That means now you dont have time to create NEW stuff and content people after playing the game for two days have asked, because as I understood from your post, features are already locked and now you have to try them, balance them, and teach the AI how to use them.

I would've rather you announced it for September, but taking into account forum feedback so you can still create some of the features the community is asking for, and not just the ones you came up with without the community feedback and without knowing whether those are things the community wants or not.

Or maybe Im just completely wrong and there is indeed time to add them, or maybe the stuff you've already done is aligned with what the community is asking for. Its just that from today's stream with the community, I got the feeling that non of it was done, that those were things you wanted to do (the list on your post), so it was still open to modification from feedback.


Cheers, greate game, very solid fundamentals and base core to build up on. Having loads of fun so far, keep it up devs!

 

[Cyhort]

What good is it to have them be playable but being exactly the same?

If CK2 launched with playable Islam factions, but they played 100% exactly the same as Christian factions, it would have been criticized for that as well.

And rightfully so. You just proved my point exactlty. CK2, at launch, had at least one very large feature completely missing. You could not play as a single Islamic ruler, which effectively cut off a large part of the map from the player. I:R, while it does have problems, launched with the entire map playable and every feature it advertised in the dev diaries and on the storefront.

 

[humancalculator]

My first Paradox release was HOI2, and I have played all the way back to the original HOI. I know how much this game will grow and improve, and have had lots of fun so far. I understand the criticism from many, but Paradox has come a very long way and I look forward to where this game goes in the future.

 

[gianlucad]

CK2, on release, had about half the map unplayable unless you bought the Islam DLC. And IIRC that wasn't even available at launch, though I could be wrong. People savaged CK2 for that when it came out, and rightfully so. And that's not even getting into the usual launch bugs. Compared to CK2, I:R was mostly smooth and feature complete, since it launched with the ability to do everything it said, and doesn't have large sections of the map that are unplayable by the player.

Muslims not being playable was inherited from CK1. The Sword of Islam patch was released months later, the game on release only had content for feudal christian nations. Would you rather have been able to play Muslim nations but have half as much effort put into christian ones on release?

 

[SNN]

Bleh, ultimately a deliberate decision was taken to release this 48% game. Speaking from experience, software development cycles are not nearly as rigid as some would have you believe. I mean there is no one definite process.

Edit: To be fair none the less, appreciate Paradox acknowledging the customer feedback already and outlining a get well path. Hope this will be a good game soon!

 

[Cyhort]

Muslims not being playable was inherited from CK1. The Sword of Islam patch was released months later, the game on release only had content for feudal christian nations. Would you rather have been able to play Muslim nations but have half as much effort put into christian ones on release?

You're missing my point entirely. Johan is saying that, as far as launches go, I:R was a good launch while people are disagreeing. I'm comparing I:R's launch to the CK2 launch, which is the only Paradox launch I was around for, to show that what Johan said isn't as ridiculous as people are claiming. People were just as unhappy with CK2 at launch as they are with I:R. And considering everything in 1.1 is being added as a free patch instead of paid DLC the way playable Muslims were in CK2, I think the dev team deserves a little more credit/understanding then they're currently getting.