Game changes seen on Twitch stream

[Jack Ryan]

I logged a lot of hours in the Beta though. Pilot injuries are my number one gripe for this game which I was and am still very opinionated about, because for me, the way it is handled is hot garbage and extremely annoying with every single knockdown and head hit being a pilot injury where the skills do not seem to affect mitigation as they should by roll. Dealing with damaged/destroyed Mechs are enough of a resource sink in my opinion.



Rarely happens to me in BT or MegaMek. I never risk leaving ammo in a stripped armor location - I almost always 'Dump Ammunition' in those instances to be better safe than sorry, which should be added as a feature to this game. That's the risk of ammo in BT, but it is not like you have to leave it there if your vehicles are about to lose their armor. You either take the risk and leave it there for one more shot and hope it doesn't get hit, or play cautious by dumping it. If they had never had a dump ammo rule for BT I would probably be more upset.

I wish we had the "dump ammo" option, we got eject surprisingly, however.

 

[Jack Ryan]

. . . the more I keep seeing about reactions to this game, the more I'm glad I'm increasingly likely not going to be playing it.

Everyone will have their own opinion of how "their" game should be. Don't allow that to sour your own experience. The game is moddable enough to allow everyone to play the way they want to

 

[SQW]

I wish we had the "dump ammo" option, we got eject surprisingly, however.

In success I guess.

 

[Jack Ryan]

In success I guess.

I think we will see it as either a dev tweak or a player mod.

 

[Kereminde]

Everyone will have their own opinion of how "their" game should be. Don't allow that to sour your own experience. The game is moddable enough to allow everyone to play the way they want to

That's not the part which gets to me, and discussing it further is both off-topic and uninteresting to me anymore. The reaction to the stream, and some of the reactions to changes we've seen (or lack of obvious changes in some cases) just has me feeling like this is going to be another case of Battletech fans deciding to not just bite the hand which feeds them but strip it to the bones and then wonder why there's resistance to touch the IP.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

I think we will see it as either a dev tweak or a player mod.

I would not expect to see it soon. As a mod it is actually pretty hard to do if my understanding is correct, because you have to implement mechanics that don't exist to dump (or somehow use, same result) all ammo. From a developers point of view: If they thought it would be necessary, we'd have it. We got some kind of free CASE, additional we have pilot ejection iirc (which also saves your mech from further damage most likely), so the need to implement a third mechanic is little to none. IMO it adds complexity, not depth.
While I see why hardcore battletech fans would like to see it, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Modders will possibly figure out a way how to do this, but given the mechanics we already have and ammo only exploding if the bin is over 50% full, I would not expect Devs to do something like that.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I would not expect to see it soon. As a mod it is actually pretty hard to do if my understanding is correct, because you have to implement mechanics that don't exist to dump (or somehow use, same result) all ammo. From a developers point of view: If they thought it would be necessary, we'd have it. We got some kind of free CASE, additional we have pilot ejection iirc (which also saves your mech from further damage most likely), so the need to implement a third mechanic is little to none. IMO it adds complexity, not depth.
While I see why hardcore battletech fans would like to see it, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Modders will possibly figure out a way how to do this, but given the mechanics we already have and ammo only exploding if the bin is over 50% full, I would not expect Devs to do something like that.

Understood, but where there's a will, there's a way. I never said it would happen overnight.

 

[Jack Ryan]

That's not the part which gets to me, and discussing it further is both off-topic and uninteresting to me anymore. The reaction to the stream, and some of the reactions to changes we've seen (or lack of obvious changes in some cases) just has me feeling like this is going to be another case of Battletech fans deciding to not just bite the hand which feeds them but strip it to the bones and then wonder why there's resistance to touch the IP.

I understand what you're saying. Don't let it color your enjoyment of the game. People are always going to give their perspective and gripes about any game openly discussed. That's kind of the point of open discussion

 

[SQW]

There's a function for update/removing ammo as the gun fire. It should be possible to call that function and just keep 'firing'.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

Thinking about it, there may actually be a way to dump ammo. You'd have to treat ammoboxes as weapons (not sure if possible) and give them a 0 dmg attack that uses a specified amount (50+x%) of its content. If you stop this attack from being listed on your weapons list (not sure if possible) and link it to an ability (not sure... you get it), you'd be able to drop ammo below exploding threshold. You might even be able to fire some more rounds after that.

Still, if it really works, it's complicated to do, it's equally non-TT as not dumping ammo and imho the best way to drop ammo is to FIRE IT AT YOUR ENEMIES!

 

[Jack Ryan]

Thinking about it, there may actually be a way to dump ammo. You'd have to treat ammoboxes as weapons (not sure if possible) and give them a 0 dmg attack that uses a specified amount (50+x%) of its content. If you stop this attack from being listed on your weapons list (not sure if possible) and link it to an ability (not sure... you get it), you'd be able to drop ammo below exploding threshold. You might even be able to fire some more rounds after that.

Still, if it really works, it's complicated to do, it's equally non-TT as not dumping ammo and imho the best way to drop ammo is to FIRE IT AT YOUR ENEMIES!

See, we're already on to ways we can accomplish this. That's what I love about brainstorming.

 

[kvetcha]

. . . the more I keep seeing about reactions to this game, the more I'm glad I'm increasingly likely not going to be playing it.

Why would other people's reactions stop you from playing it?

 

[Jack Ryan]

Why would other people's reactions stop you from playing it?

I cannot speak for him, however, the way I understood it ... It was more like they don't want to be associated with people that question the dev choices. In addition to that there's a fear that any criticism of the game might lead to enough negative press that the game will fall on it's face rather than land on it's feet, running.

 

[CarpeMortis]

To-hit odds to the face are likely not being messed with to give the AI an up on injuring our pilots. It's just people don't understand what 1% means when when basically over 100 damage location rolls are made between both sides each combat round. I'm fairly sure if anyone else still has the beta, load my Post-Beta Mod Pack in the fan-art subforum and run this setup, letting Kraken get take the hits first and you will get the same results or worse as my AI is actually more lethal than what we saw today.

So much this! I used to run several MekWars servers. Roughly once a month, there would be discussion about how the RNG is wonky, and producing too many HD hits or Through Armor Criticals. In the end it was all just confirmation bias combined with a misunderstanding of probability and statistics.

 

[kvetcha]

I cannot speak for him, however, the way I understood it ... It was more like they don't want to be associated with people that question the dev choices. In addition to that there's a fear that any criticism of the game might lead to enough negative press that the game will fall on it's face rather than land on it's feet, running.

If one is concerned with the success of the game it seems counterproductive to 'not play it' just to distance oneself from critical opinions.

 

[Jack Ryan]

If one is concerned with the success of the game it seems counterproductive to 'not play it' just to distance oneself from critical opinions.

Yeah... I'm on the same page with you on that. However, not all of us rationalize the same way. It's kind of the beauty of being human, all the different perspectives people have.

I don't have to agree with his assessment of the situation, but I have to respect it and figure out a way to understand why he got to that conclusion. That way we can overcome confusion and conflict. (Hopefully)

 

[Jade_Rook]

Thinking about it, there may actually be a way to dump ammo. You'd have to treat ammoboxes as weapons (not sure if possible) and give them a 0 dmg attack that uses a specified amount (50+x%) of its content. If you stop this attack from being listed on your weapons list (not sure if possible) and link it to an ability (not sure... you get it), you'd be able to drop ammo below exploding threshold. You might even be able to fire some more rounds after that.

Still, if it really works, it's complicated to do, it's equally non-TT as not dumping ammo and imho the best way to drop ammo is to FIRE IT AT YOUR ENEMIES!

Could mod in Dump Ammo as a zero damage weapon. That wouldn't be too difficult, but wouldn't really be ideal.

The biggest issue with dumping ammo is all of the options involved. What if you have an LRM and an SRM and only want to dump the LRM ammo? What if you have 2 tons of LRM ammo, one in each torso and only the left side is exposed? Being able to select what to dump is a bit more involved than it first appears and it comes up so rarely that I don't know how valuable it would be.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

So much this! I used to run several MekWars servers. Roughly once a month, there would be discussion about how the RNG is wonky, and producing too many HD hits or Through Armor Criticals. In the end it was all just confirmation bias combined with a misunderstanding of probability and statistics.

Agreed.

 

[Kereminde]

I cannot speak for him.

Please don't. Also, I'm not going to go into this any further here. After I get back from an errand I might . . . might . . . post in the Bickering Thread.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

Could mod in Dump Ammo as a zero damage weapon. That wouldn't be too difficult, but wouldn't really be ideal.

The biggest issue with dumping ammo is all of the options involved. What if you have an LRM and an SRM and only want to dump the LRM ammo? What if you have 2 tons of LRM ammo, one in each torso and only the left side is exposed? Being able to select what to dump is a bit more involved than it first appears and it comes up so rarely that I don't know how valuable it would be.

That's what I meant by "it's complicated". And I agree, in my opinion it's not worth the effort.