Game breaking bug: The math is wrong

[GChapman]

I just won a war. Before the war, they had 41% control of all provinces and i had no real issue. Now they have less control, but their influence based on how much they control increased. The tooltip says their influence increases by 0,4% for each 1% of the total development (non-overseas). Lets do the math: 0,4% of 34,6 is 13,84%. No according the game: It is 20,8%. Before the peace deal, this number was correct (i cant proof it, playing on Ironman), but now it is wrong. Instead of lowering the influence, it increased the influence and made me sitting on 80% influence and thus starts the disaster ticking!

I know i was fine before the peace deal (based on around 41% control). So there is NO WAY that their influence is now increased, but their control is decreased (nothing else changed)!

Can someone explain what happens to me? If there is some unknown hidden mechanic (so the tooltip is wrong), please let me know. In the current setup, the game can decised you need a ticking disaster, even if it is wrong based on the tooltips.


NOTE: This is not the first time i observe some strange behavior of the increased loyality based on the % of development they control...

 

[lymond]

I concur. I'm seeing some stuff with other Estates where I give land and the influence goes up very disproportionately to the loyalty. It is mind boggling annoying to have to deal with estates every turn due to this issue..

 

[bengute]

It might be a coincidence, but 34.6 *.6 =20.76 which could be rounded up til 20.8 %, not quite sure why it would be using that number instead of of 13.84 though

 

[GChapman]

It might be a coincidence, but 34.6 *.6 =20.76 which could be rounded up til 20.8 %, not quite sure why it would be using that number instead of of 13.84 though

Yeah, i did notice this too. Dont know if it is a coincidence, but it may be indeed the case. Maybe it is 0,4% ir 0,6% based on the situation, and there is some hidden mechanic and the tooltip is lying.

0,4% is sometimes correct. But not always, so or the math is bugged or there must be some hidden mechanic.

 

[GChapman]

Just revoke an 1/1/1 estate, so they now control 33,3%. Guess there penalty for there influence: 33,3*0,4 %. Note: I didnt look immedaitely. So months passed. During this months, my OE decreased from 55 to 40. Maybe is has to do something with OE?

 

[GChapman]

Can someone explains this problem?

 

[sterjs]

I've noticed bizarre spikes in Tribe influence for absolutely no reason. Now I just try to keep it as low as possible.

 

[cahtush]

I've noticed bizarre spikes in Tribe influence for absolutely no reason. Now I just try to keep it as low as possible.

Their influence increase +10 for every 10 provinces up to +40%.
I don't think the game tells you this though.

 

[GChapman]

Nice to know, but do not explains this behavoir. Those +40 is another modifier.

 

[esharhaddon]

Before adding a province to the estate. (says influence will increase to 51.8%)

Spoiler

After adding the province to the estate. (says 51.2% influence)

Spoiler

Not sure if I am missing something, but something seems off on the estate tooltips.

 

[GChapman]

Still waiting for respons of a dev.

 

[sterjs]

This can't be right, can it?

http://imgur.com/tm2Zy7l

50% influence, 0 territories. The influence never ticks down. Estates seem broken atm.

 

[InFerroVeritas]

I've seen a lot of AI hordes wind up getting crippled by tribal rebellions (especially the large ones, like Timmy). I don't know if it's broken or what but it really does need to be revisited.

 

[GChapman]

Pretty bad. This needs an hotfix.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

It's more likely to be seen by a dev dealing with bugs if you copy this discussion (or have it moved) to the bug forum.

If you can include a save when you copy it across it might help the bug team chase down the problem.

 

[yerm]

This can't be right, can it?

http://imgur.com/tm2Zy7l

50% influence, 0 territories. The influence never ticks down. Estates seem broken atm.

I believe there are SERIOUS issues with flat boosts to certain estates. My assumption is that hordes and republics have it, as their AIs are constantly spamming me with notifications of tribe disaster for hordes and burgher disaster for republics. I assume it's some kind of uncapped or poorly capped influence scaling, city count for tribes and I think CoT count and/or trade income for burghers.

 

[ForzaA]

Thanks for your report/ the discussion.

Something does indeed seem off, looking into this.

This can't be right, can it?

http://imgur.com/tm2Zy7l

50% influence, 0 territories. The influence never ticks down. Estates seem broken atm.

That seems to be entirely as it should be (though we'll likely scale down the flat modifier from "number of cities")

I believe there are SERIOUS issues with flat boosts to certain estates. My assumption is that hordes and republics have it, as their AIs are constantly spamming me with notifications of tribe disaster for hordes and burgher disaster for republics. I assume it's some kind of uncapped or poorly capped influence scaling, city count for tribes and I think CoT count and/or trade income for burghers.

There was an issue (IIRC, it was hotfixed) with the AI responding to a faction getting "too strong" by assigning it *even more* provinces; more likely to happen with base influence modifiers.
If you have an issue with this with a new savegame, I'd be quite interested.

 

[CyberianK]

This can't be right, can it?

http://imgur.com/tm2Zy7l

50% influence, 0 territories. The influence never ticks down. Estates seem broken atm.

nope, working as intended... after a certain total development which you easily reach in the first few dozen years with all hordes you will always have

10% base
40% number of cities
~17% for 33% of provinces

I too thought it was insane but now I played ~150 years Uzbek being at +40% for 140 of those but it turned out well I have 90% loyalty and ~6x% influence most of the time. I had an early disaster but it wasnt that bad because I spent all MP before and in the end it cost me only 3 stability.
It is actually manageable you just can't take + influence actions unless you have had a - influence event decision happen before that.

EDIT: thx for that @ForzaA, a slight reduction of the cities modifier would be nice just because of the random +20 influence event. If you are at 67 base for minimum and get hit by it there is no way to prevent it except revoking half the territory. In my case I had to let it happen and then get hit by a -10 influence event to get out of it again. Of course instead you could just cap influence increase events at +10 but reducing cities modifier by 10 works too.

 

[ForzaA]

So.. I think I have some results for you..

0.4 ; is not actually 0.4, but is 1,5 (default influence) multiplied by 0.33, so 0.495. This is for some reason displayed floored/truncated rather than rounded. reported as one issue.

The other issue I have found is the following

The controlled percentage is based on all development, the influence seems to be based on the percentage of cored development.

I have NOT been able to find any cases where their overall influence from controlled provinces INcreased as a result of taking more territory.
However, possibilities here include; reaching a new "number of cities" milestone, the conquest coinciding with, or triggering, a recalculation of overall influence after an influence decreasing modifier was removed.
It's also possible I just didn't find a scenario where influence does increase after conquest (in which case, I would of course be very interested in the scenario)

 

[doktorstick]

Check and see if the maths change if you have colony provinces (land considered "overseas"); they cannot have estates but may be figuring into the maths of controlled / cored.

As an aside, sometimes when you finish a war, you've opened up some land that was previously considered "overseas". Since estates cannot be made overseas, you've now added many new provinces causing your number to drop from what you remembered or expected.