-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Przeworsk culture
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
• Learn more about using Wikipedia for research •Jump to: navigation, search
The green area is the Przeworsk culture in the first half of the 3rd century. The red area is the extent of the Wielbark culture, the yellow area is a Baltic culture (Yotvingian?), and the pink area is the Debczyn culture. The dark blue area is the Roman Empire
The expansion of the Germanic tribes 750 BC – AD 1 (after the Penguin Atlas of World History 1988):
Settlements before 750BC
New settlements until 500BC
New settlements until 250BC
New settlements until AD 1The Przeworsk culture is part of an Iron Age archaeological complex that dates from the 2nd century BC to the 4th century. It was located in what is now central and southern Poland and parts of eastern Slovakia and Carpathian Ruthenia ranging between the Oder and the middle and upper Vistula Rivers into the headwaters of the Dnestr and Tisza Rivers. It takes its name from the village near the town Przeworsk where the first artefacts were found.
The immediately preceding Pomeranian culture occupied this same area. To the east, in what is now northern part of Ukraine and southern Belarus, was the Zarubintsy culture, to which it is linked as a larger archaeological complex. In the east and to the north of the Zarubintsy culture was the Chernoles culture, which is usually identified as a very early Slavic community, representing a stage near to Proto-Slavic.
At its northeastern edge, the Goths developed the Wielbark culture along the lower and middle Vistula. To the northeast of the Goths, there was a Baltic (and likely Baltic-speaking) culture, perhaps the Aesti.
Roman-era writers report this area as being occupied by Venedes as well as Lugians, to the South. A substantial effort has been expended in the past to characterize the latter as an early Slavic-speaking community. The Veneti who were proto-Slavic peoples (see Relation between Veneti and Slavs) were found exactly here.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
just wiki przeworsk. this concludes my point. please look up slavic cultures and learn about them, some of you will be amazed that they dont all begin with soviet russia.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
• Learn more about using Wikipedia for research •Jump to: navigation, search
The green area is the Przeworsk culture in the first half of the 3rd century. The red area is the extent of the Wielbark culture, the yellow area is a Baltic culture (Yotvingian?), and the pink area is the Debczyn culture. The dark blue area is the Roman Empire
The expansion of the Germanic tribes 750 BC – AD 1 (after the Penguin Atlas of World History 1988):
Settlements before 750BC
New settlements until 500BC
New settlements until 250BC
New settlements until AD 1The Przeworsk culture is part of an Iron Age archaeological complex that dates from the 2nd century BC to the 4th century. It was located in what is now central and southern Poland and parts of eastern Slovakia and Carpathian Ruthenia ranging between the Oder and the middle and upper Vistula Rivers into the headwaters of the Dnestr and Tisza Rivers. It takes its name from the village near the town Przeworsk where the first artefacts were found.
The immediately preceding Pomeranian culture occupied this same area. To the east, in what is now northern part of Ukraine and southern Belarus, was the Zarubintsy culture, to which it is linked as a larger archaeological complex. In the east and to the north of the Zarubintsy culture was the Chernoles culture, which is usually identified as a very early Slavic community, representing a stage near to Proto-Slavic.
At its northeastern edge, the Goths developed the Wielbark culture along the lower and middle Vistula. To the northeast of the Goths, there was a Baltic (and likely Baltic-speaking) culture, perhaps the Aesti.
Roman-era writers report this area as being occupied by Venedes as well as Lugians, to the South. A substantial effort has been expended in the past to characterize the latter as an early Slavic-speaking community. The Veneti who were proto-Slavic peoples (see Relation between Veneti and Slavs) were found exactly here.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
just wiki przeworsk. this concludes my point. please look up slavic cultures and learn about them, some of you will be amazed that they dont all begin with soviet russia.
EuroSlavski: nobody believes that Slavic cultures begin with Soviet Russia. However, you're making too big a deal about their inclusion in this game. As said, we will probably see some tribes on the East of the map, but nothing on the scale you so obviously want to see.
Vacceo said:
I suspect the theory is that the goths picked it up from thier slavic neighbours and dropped it off in Iberia.
As said, personally I find a germanic origin more likely, but I'm not a linguist
Considering that the main population after the fall of Rome in Iberia was hispano-romans and that vandals only lasted a decent time in Galaecia, seems like the "barbarian" influence come from Goths (in iberian case, Visigoths) who were heavily romanized when settled his capital in Toledo (just looking at the Liber Iudiciorum is a nice glimpse of that).EuroSlavski said:
Counting all that, the presence of people from outside was comparatively low and Visigoths were in charge of taking out everyone in service to rome, slavic influence in Iberian Peninsula is indirect.
By the way, you must come from the school of "I´m allowed to judge anyone as I want to".
Wiking said:
As I said with my first post the Slavs should be a slow trickle into the extreme east in game timeframe for province control if the map goes deep into Eastern Europe and picture raider groups coming in from that direction. Yes, Slavs traded with the Romans, but Indian city states traded with the Romans too and we are not talking about including them into the mix for the game. Hell the game will probably not even come close to covering the East African regions which were at one of the heights of their historical power during this period. The Classical Age kingdoms that now are in the nations of Somalia, Sudan, and Eithopia were among some of the richest and powerful nations in the world at the time and they are probably all on the trashheap for the game.
To talk of "we must have Slavs represented" when other whole regions are to be lost to gameplay which did have serious power to effect the surrounding nations in 300 B.C. on the game map is kind of hard to accept. Yes, the Slavs where it is definite they were involved should be represented to some degree, but they are not a dominant force in the Med. Sea region at the time.
The Kingdom of Meroe, which is in modern day Sudan was a major source of gold, ivory, timber, spices, slaves, and many other vital trade goods for the entire Roman World both during the Roman Republic and Empire. They also were many times a military threat to the Ptolemy's heirs in Egypt and cost Egypt heavily in defenses built along the southern border to prevent this strong nation from overrunning the borderlands. Unless the map changes, they are not even in the game.
Accept the small role for the Slavs in the Eastern regions of the map when it is historically viable, please.
Slavic = proto-Baltic + Sarmatian + continental Gothic influence ,
similar Germanic words in Slavic either
borrowed by Slavic from Goths Empire 3BC-3AC,or
from Vikings,Varangyans
either have similar common Indo-European etymology
The word 'gård' has ...many, many and even more meanings in Swedish-
alone or as a part of complex words and can not possibly be borrowed from Slavic since there it has only one meaning
Wiki can be edited and there many 'patriotically' re-done articles
Cultures who precede are not count only eventual do
52% of modern Poles are matching Sarmatian hablo-group :no wonder they had such crash on cavalry .
similar Germanic words in Slavic either
borrowed by Slavic from Goths Empire 3BC-3AC,or
from Vikings,Varangyans
either have similar common Indo-European etymology
The word 'gård' has ...many, many and even more meanings in Swedish-
alone or as a part of complex words and can not possibly be borrowed from Slavic since there it has only one meaning
Wiki can be edited and there many 'patriotically' re-done articles
Cultures who precede are not count only eventual do
52% of modern Poles are matching Sarmatian hablo-group :no wonder they had such crash on cavalry .
Last edited:
EuroSlavski said:
Is there anyone knowing if it would be wrong to characterize this culture as proto-slavic? Otherwise we would seem to have at least one area that is likely to be included on the map that would make EuroSlavski happy.
I think it is safe to say, that if the Slavs are the only ones to believe the Slavs were important in this timeframe, they won't be in the game.
PS. Slavs had no influence in this period. They won't be in the game. It ain't going to happen, and anyone but the slavs, knows it.
PS. Slavs had no influence in this period. They won't be in the game. It ain't going to happen, and anyone but the slavs, knows it.
All Ignoramuses, who say that Slavs had no influnece in the Roman Era are just that. Read up on Teutonic invasion of Rome for example.
Teutons were turned away from going into steppes by the same slavic tribes. And if not for that they would of his Rome faster and we would not be playing this game at all.
Greeks had cities in what is modern Ukraine from before Rome. And trades with Skiffs and other tribes there and were kicked out by the same.
I really dont care wheather or not they are included as long as that area is made Permanent Terra Incognita. If its not made PTI then they should be included.
But please stop making ignorant statements if you got not the smallest idea what you are talking about.
Teutons were turned away from going into steppes by the same slavic tribes. And if not for that they would of his Rome faster and we would not be playing this game at all.
Greeks had cities in what is modern Ukraine from before Rome. And trades with Skiffs and other tribes there and were kicked out by the same.
I really dont care wheather or not they are included as long as that area is made Permanent Terra Incognita. If its not made PTI then they should be included.
But please stop making ignorant statements if you got not the smallest idea what you are talking about.
Parasuca said:
no one has said the Slavs had no influence on events... however to be fair if we are talking about tribes and kingdoms that did influence events in the region which did more to affect the Roman World, a tribal group that blocked movement of another tribal group mostly off the contemplated game map or kingdoms that might have actually conquered vast regions on the game map?
Slavs if the game was inclusive of the Imperial period would become a growing factor in the game as they did historically taking more and more land in Eastern Europe and approaching the Black Sea, this should even be represented in the later period of the Republic, but at the time these were not the dominant lands or kingdoms and republics of the period. On the same note the game should not make the Celts or Germanic tribes more than they were, but the only way to really represent the Slavs as a major power player in the world at the time would be to rewrite history extensively.
If you want them represented at all they should be mostly minor province powers at the fringe of the game map, but should represent a potential pool of raiders into the Med and Asia Minor region which did sometimes occur at the time.
Edit: also the fact that a large part of the land that the Slavs ruled at the time was not exactly any more fertile than the lands lost by the Teutons after a major flood poisoned much of the lands the Teutonic tribes lived on with salt water while the Romans held several rich farming provinces that were nearly empty of population had nothing at all to do with the Teutons choosing not to fight with the Slavs and instead go against the Romans and the Roman allied Celtic tribes.
Ed-Thunder said:
Balts have no ethnic relation to Slavs what so ever, the Balts influenced old Slavic pagan religions thou.
shadow737 said:
Yes, I agree. Nothing wrong with making them 1-2 provinse minor - EU3 style
Only language matching with Slavic lexicon on 60%-no they do- they are very linguistically related.Cyreidel said:
Given that Balts originate from Poland moving to modern Baltic states in 2th BC they naturally had relations with proto-Slavic and are from possibly from one origin with Balts forming into etnicity sooner upon meeting of too different Ugric-Finnic in Balt-states but being almost the same with Slavic in Poland region for long time so even some nations like early medieval Oborites are called Balto-Slavic.
We talk here about protos -why you mix it with modern time
Last edited:
Let's just hope that Dark Ages expansion would come out too so Slavic can get their place in the game ending all quarrels .
ending all quarrels .
Parasuca said:
Another Slav
I want the Danish Kingdom in this game too
I gladly admit, I have no love or knowledge in Slavic History until Dark Ages. But I think it's fair to say, that even for a well-knowledged western european, slavs in a BC game, sounds unlikely and quite pointless. It is correct Slavs or proto-Slavs inhabited some of these areas. But as another one mentioned, it is closer to natives than to organized tribes or kingdoms.
Another point is if you look at the game title. Rome. I count on, we all know the area of the Roman Empire around 27 BC, and the Romans had no political influence in Eastern Europe, besides some small Greek trading colonies at the black sea. A lot of Tribes in Germany, Poland and the British Isles, had more political influence on the Hellenic or Roman world.
From all I've seen most of Eastern Europe is PTI. Gothic kingdoms in the East will exist as far as I and some greek areas too. But none or quite few slavic territories. I think it is fair to say that the Slavs had their political height later on. Like 4th, 5th and 6th century.
Imo the Bosporan kingdom should be included. And that would only make sense if they had some barbarians surrounding them. Further inland it seems a little less obvious how much to include in the game.
Lol so leave it an empty territory?
Tribes that inhabited that area were Persian in origin. And as such were quite rich and organized. Because theyr were more nomadic in nature than anything else they did not expand same as they were to far for Romans to influense or deal with most of the time.
So ingame, Unless that area is a Permanent terra incognita or for people who dont know what that is "anaccesible zone", then put the damn tribes in there...whats the problem and big deal? Im sure players would want to expand in there and those tribes might make it harder.
Tribes that inhabited that area were Persian in origin. And as such were quite rich and organized. Because theyr were more nomadic in nature than anything else they did not expand same as they were to far for Romans to influense or deal with most of the time.
So ingame, Unless that area is a Permanent terra incognita or for people who dont know what that is "anaccesible zone", then put the damn tribes in there...whats the problem and big deal? Im sure players would want to expand in there and those tribes might make it harder.