Galactic Wonders Ascension Perk offers too much

[krios41]

I do not agree.
Mainly that now i can generaly get all the things i want
But seriously, it takes

• 5 years to build a habitat
• 58.1/3 years to build a complete ringworld
• 55 years to build a dyson sphere
• 25 years to build a science nexus
• 25 years to build a sentry array

With master builders everything is done 50% faster (altough i'm not sure if it applies to habitats) but it stil takes a heck of a long time. So if you want to build more then one megastructure in any reasonable time frame its a must-have and if you want to take full advantage of MB then you need voidborne too. This is 3(2) Ascenion slots that are already spend. If we needed any more Ascenion perks just to unlock more megastructers i'd be quite angry.

 

[KingAlamar]

I think the perk just does too much to the point where it shouldn't be an ascension perk. Yes, you don't need to build all of them, and you need to put resources into them all and they don't give you immediate benefits. But at the same time, its just a perk that opens up a building option for virtually every play style, especially with this new expansion adding even more.

I would rather the Master Builders give you an even bigger buff to constructing them and have the regular mega-structures just gated by late-game techs. Even if you unlock all of them through one tech, or a group of them, or one at a time. The reason is simply because while the perk might not be overpowered, if every single empire in the game picks it every single time, then why is it even an ascension perk? Might as well unlock it for everyone and remove one of the ascension perk slots. Even if you only use the Ring Worlds, and your neighbor only wanted to build Dyson Spheres, why must that be gated behind the same perk for both of you?

From a RP perspective megastructures are really close to a core gameplay element. I also agree with the POV that ascension perks should be used to make your empire different from other empires.

If I remember correctly Voidborne, Galactic Wonders, Collosus (forgot name), and Master Builders are all required to be good at building 'big things'. Once you add a couple of slots for ascension that generally means that a lot of RPs wind up with only 2 slots left to make their empire unique. Seeing that those perks are often forced to be early-availability perks that lowers the choices many have even further.

 

[krios41]

Once you add a couple of slots for ascension that generally means that a lot of RPs wind up with only 2 slots left to make their empire unique. Seeing that those perks are often forced to be early-availability perks that lowers the choices many have even further.

yea, personaly, i think they should do away with all the "you need X amount of ascensions picked first" its overly limiting when you consider that many of the T0 ascenions aren't even that good. Its a choice forced onto us, and we all know that a forced choice isn't realy a choice.

 

[KingAlamar]

For people who disagree with splitting up "Galactic Wonders," is there a point at which you would consider splitting it up? 10 mega structures? 20? I'm just curious.

Short answer: No

Longer answer: Heck No ... well sort of but not the way you're thinking

Reasoning:

At this point ascension perks are a very rare commodity. We only get eight total. Of those eight two often go to Ascension. Two more usually go as a early game choices from a limited pool. There are already four perks to be able to build everything well leaving you with no perks to differentiate your empire from others.

My thoughts are instead of making most of the wonders PERKS just make them all gated behind techs. We could leave in a Master Builders as long it it improved build speed / efficiency for ALL projects and not just 'wonders'.

I wouldn't mind a habitat tech for example. A colossus could be considered as a ship tech [like titans]. Mega Engineering could be used to gate wonders as it [basically] already does. You just remove the Voidborne, Galactic Wonders, and Colossus perks and tweak the Master Builders to be universally useful and not just one of the "wonder techs".

Now after the above changes many players now have 1-4 more interesting choices of perks and perhaps that would lead to a little greater diversity.

 

[metalosse]

As people already pointed out, megastructures already need a lot of time to be actually worth it. Meaning that adding new megastructures offers more flexibility, but not much raw power.

They are most of the time taken with master builders. That is already two perks to make megastructures.

And most importantly, they are bad for most empires. Right now, the only build that really benefits from it is the pacifist build, that rush tech and unity and try to get them before 2300.

You don't need to nerf galactic wonders.

 

[Tyrannical Prince]

I don't like the idea of locking the mega structures behind techs because eventually EVERY empire will have them.

Mega structures should be rare. I like the idea of different empires eventually having access to 1-3 of them depending on their choices
I think each mega structure should have it's own ascension perk that includes other goodies.
Here's what I think.

1. Remove Galactic Wonders.
2. Replace Masters Builders with repeatable tech (5% mega structure build speed each)
3. Place 4 Mega structures within existing and boring ascension perks

Technological Ascendancy: +10% research, access to the Science Nexus
Enigmatic Engineering: +2 sensor range, Technology can't be reverse-engineered, access to the Sentry Array
One Vision: +10% Unity, +50% governing ethics attraction, access to the Mega Art Installation
Galactic Force Projection: +20 Fleet Limit, +80 Naval Capacity, access to the Strategic Coordination Center

Voidborne: access to Habitats, +5% build speed for everything in space

4. Place the remaining 4 Mega Structures within new ascension perks

Circle of Life: +10% habitability, access to Ring Worlds
Post Scarcity: +10% Energy, access to Dyson Sphere
Utopia Manifest: -20% Planet crime, +20 Planet Stability, access to Interstellar Assembly
Mastery of Alchemy: +10% Mineral, access to Matter Decompressor

5. Note: You still need the Mega Engineering Tech to be able to build a mega structure.

 

[Secret Master]

For the record I never argued that Galactic Wonders was overpowered or imbalanced. I simply argued that having so much under one perk makes it silly not to.

I never said you said that they were overpowered. I merely indicated the conditions under which I would want it changed in the manner you describe.

That being said, you mention the unity perk. Considering the immediate impact that perk has, and the value of some of the unity edicts, I think it has more utility than the galactic wonders perk. Stacking omniferous acquisition with grand fleet because you have the unity to do so helps defeat your enemies much faster than building a ring world. Or a science nexus.

 

[Xoatl]

I think I see the OPs point but I don't agree with the fix that they are proposing.

I'm currently wondering if you happen to have MEGA ENGINEERING tech anyway why should you necessarily need one of your very few perks to construct any of the mega structures? Maybe a single perk [include Habitats & Colossus too while you're at it] would allow you to build these at either discounts and/or more quickly but I'm not fond of having to spend multiple perks to just to build a death star, a few habitats, and a science array.

If you remove the 2-3 "required" perks needed for mega structures [counting Habitats & Colossus] maybe we could look at things like having players get fewer perks / tradition trees completed without causing too many head & heart aches.

I like the OPs idea more or less. Remove Megastructure, have some tied to the technology, like ring worlds, dyson sphere, and matter decompresser. However have the rest as additional unlocks to other perks (so long as you have tech too). This would make late game way more fun as everyone starts eyeing their neighbours for megastructures that they can't build themselves.