Gaining independence, looks impossible to me...

[BogdanM]

So I'm trying to gain independence as Moldavia from Poland. I have about 20-25 years from 1444 to become independent before Poland annexes me automatically(you get a message that Poland has started annexation and after a few years you automatically lose). I'm not sure what's that all about, Poland never annexed Moldavia, afaik...

Anyway, surviving seems like an impossible task for me. As a subject nation I'm so limited to what diplomatic actions I can do that my only choice is to fight Poland on my own. So I'll just wait for it do get into a conflict and take my chances when it's weak. Right, except that Poland automatically drags me into any war it starts and then I can't declare war on it on my own. That really doesn't make any sense. Having a powerful ally like Lithuania that jumps into any war Poland it's in doesn't help either. I've tried fighting it directly but even with 15 stacks and catching it's entire army un-prepared(with minimum army expenses at start) it's impossible to win.

Has anyone successfully gained independence as Moldavia and if so, how did you do it?

 

[oblio-]

I actually was too afraid to start with Moldova, I cheated out and formed Romania with Wallachia.

There's something I'm not sure about - I heard about support for independence. Doesn't that help?

What you can do extra - request military access, Scorch Earth your provinces to make Poland lose a lot of men.

 

[BogdanM]

I actually was too afraid to start with Moldova, I cheated out and formed Romania with Wallachia.

There's something I'm not sure about - I heard about support for independence. Doesn't that help?

What you can do extra - request military access, Scorch Earth your provinces to make Poland lose a lot of men.

Yep, I was thinking about leaving Moldavia alone and try again with Wallachia but that one isn't a walk in the park either. I've seen it attacked by Bosnia and the Ottoman Empire.
What do you mean by "support for independence"? I've just started playing EU4 so most likely I'm missing some features. As for destroying the Polish army alone, that's very unlikely. I've tried about 5-6 times, my best result was with 15 stacks defeating about 20 Polish stacks, still having around 7000 strong army but no manpower so I ran into Crimea. Poland just sent another 12 stacks and sieged both my provinces and it was impossible to attack either of them as it just moved the other army to help.

 

[beckermt]

I believe you can cancel annexation, but maybe that's just PU integration...

 

[Tub]

I believe you can cancel annexation, but maybe that's just PU integration...

Not any more, they removed that feature in 1.4.

I guess scorched earth is the way to go, but you'll need to move pretty damn quickly if you want to avoid the Ottomans eating up your potential conquests in Wallachia and Serbia/Bosnia.

Something that comes to mind might be declaring independence on the first day, RMing Hungary, getting MA from Wallachia, then scorch earth your provinces - Ally Hungary and call them in before the sixty days are up, and see if that helps.

After that, Hungary might have your dynasty on their throne, setting up an eventual PU... and after independence from Poland, you could try and RM/Ally Lithuania. If you tank Poland's prestige in the first war, or drag it out for long enough, Poland won't get the Lithuanian PU, and will be significantly weaker from then on. Then again, I haven't tried to play Moldova, so all of this above could be a whole load of BS.

 

[BogdanM]

Thanks for the reply Tub! I will try it out.

 

[MadDjinn]

you can ask nations to support your independence if you get their opinion of you (and they have to dislike Poland) high enough. Your diplo reputation matters, along with army strength/etc etc.

Your best bet is to look at Polands Rivals and see if they'll help. If you do get nations to support you, then they will automatically ally you and join your war of independence when you declare it.

 

[BogdanM]

How do I ask them to support my independence? I didn't see such diplomatic action. Poland doesn't have any rivals that could help me. My best bet was Hungary, I managed to get it to like me but it's impossible to make an alliance with it after I declare war of independence as I get a -60 penalty for being at war. I also tried to start the war before Poland gets a personal union with Lithuania but Lithuania still joins the war and this time so did Austria. ) For now I have abandoned all hope to play as an independent Moldavia.

I really think the annexation event should be taken out as it only brakes the scenario. Also being able to declare war to your overlord should be possible at all times.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

you can ask nations to support your independence if you get their opinion of you (and they have to dislike Poland) high enough. Your diplo reputation matters, along with army strength/etc etc.

Your best bet is to look at Polands Rivals and see if they'll help. If you do get nations to support you, then they will automatically ally you and join your war of independence when you declare it.

Opinion is a pathetically weak factor in supporting the player. Improving relations to +100 is worth almost nothing compared to improving them to "above 0". Diprep matters, but what you really need is their baseline opinion of you to be favorable (IE friendly, not neutral) and/or for them to despise your master, who is considerably weaker than them.

This combination of factors is why it's literally impossible to get support as Mongol Khanate unless Oirate goes towards Uzbek early and gets depleted (rare, usually Manchu declares first, which is arguably easier for you anyway since they will often do it mid-war with Uzbek regardless), and then only Chagatai will support.

 

[BogdanM]

Opinion is a pathetically weak factor in supporting the player. Improving relations to +100 is worth almost nothing compared to improving them to "above 0". Diprep matters, but what you really need is their baseline opinion of you to be favorable (IE friendly, not neutral) and/or for them to despise your master, who is considerably weaker than them.

I've looked long and hard for potential allies and it doesn't appear to be any that fits these requirements. Another diplomatic option it would have been useful was the possibility of offering vassalage to another country which in return would protect you from your former overlord. Yes, it sounds like I'm not improving my situation but maybe my new suzerain won't try to annex me.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I've looked long and hard for potential allies and it doesn't appear to be any that fits these requirements. Another diplomatic option it would have been useful was the possibility of offering vassalage to another country which in return would protect you from your former overlord. Yes, it sounds like no achieving anything but maybe your new suzerain won't try to annex you.

I'll take a look at the start later and see if I can come up with anything. Maybe not later today though, I still have the Mongol Khanate ironman I'm working on, and that only after I finish my little luck of the Irish run .

 

[oblio-]

Thanks for the reply Tub! I will try it out.

By the way, TheMeInTeam is an expert in bad starting positions, read this and adapt it to your situation: for Mongol Khanate but quite similar from a gameplay aspect.

For Wallachia, it's definitely easier but still hard for a first game.
I have made it with Wallachia and the strat goes like:
0. Don't unpause.
1. Royal Marriage with Bosnia.
2. Make 4 troops with the starting gold.
3. Make your king, Vlad II Drăculești a general.
4. Wait for 2 troops to make.
5. Declare war on Serbia without Casus Belli, call Bosnia.
6. Ottomans and Hungary will warn you.
7. Make sure you siege stuff yourself, not Bosnia.
8. Annex all of Serbia.
9. Improve relations with the Ottomans and Hungary.
10. Core Serbia. Around this point Bosnia will break the alliance.
11. Improve relations with Poland and Austria.
12. Ally Poland and/or Austria.
13. Wait for the warning to go away, around 1467 or so.
14. Claim something from Bosnia and attack/annex them.

After this, it all depends on your game. If Hungary is weak, attack them with allies. If Poland is weak, the same.

Keep the Ottomans' opinion of you above 0 at all times. They have a mission to vassalize you and it's more likely to trigger when their opinion is under 0.
They are also a lucky nation, so do NOT attack the Ottomans until you have 1 major ally (think 80k+ troops) and until you have yourself a decent army, probably 40k or more. And that ally better be reliable, France works best. I've had Poland charge into Anatolia with 40k troops only to be blocked at the straits by the Ottoman navy and then stomped.

Preferably attack them when you have stronger troops as well, that only happens later in the game. Westernizing can also help with this, around military level 18 I think your troops become better.

 

[laijka]

There's something I'm not sure about - I heard about support for independence. Doesn't that help?

you can ask nations to support your independence if you get their opinion of you (and they have to dislike Poland) high enough. Your diplo reputation matters, along with army strength/etc etc.

How do I ask them to support my independence? I didn't see such diplomatic action.

Supporting a country's independence/asking for a nation to support your independence is only available if you have the Conquest of Paradise DLC.

 

[BogdanM]

I'll take a look at the start later and see if I can come up with anything. Maybe not later today though, I still have the Mongol Khanate ironman I'm working on, and that only after I finish my little luck of the Irish run .

Thanks! No rush though, if anything games like EU and CK really give you plenty of alternatives, I just got a little bit obsessed with making it work.

Supporting a country's independence/asking for a nation to support your independence is only available if you have the Conquest of Paradise DLC.

Well that explains it, but the DLC is a bit too expensive for me right now so I'll have to manage without it. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[MadDjinn]

How do I ask them to support my independence? .

It's right under the 'ask for alliance' button.

 

[MadDjinn]

Supporting a country's independence/asking for a nation to support your independence is only available if you have the Conquest of Paradise DLC.

ah, oops. I thought that went out with the base patch, along with protectorates.

 

[oblio-]

Thanks! No rush though, if anything games like EU and CK really give you plenty of alternatives, I just got a little bit obsessed with making it work.

Well, Moldavia has a really nice looking flag (the bull looks great):

and that greenish color is also rare in Europe (only Qara Qoyunlu and Persia have similar colours).
So I wouldn't mind seeing a huge greenish blob over Central Europe in 1700.
Fight the good fight!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

ah, oops. I thought that went out with the base patch, along with protectorates.

You'd think if they removed cancel annexation, they'd have added that, or left the former in...