Gaining Favor with Gods

[unmerged(170187)]

I was playing as Undead and planned on going Dauros. But I got a quest from Dauros to build one of his temples and I didn't get a Holy spot in time to begin construction. Since I failed the quest my favor with Dauros has dropped so that I can no longer build the temple.

Is there any way I can intentionally gain favor with a God other then building a temple? Quests are too random and you have control of what you get.

 

[The Apprentice]

It is part of the randomness currently in the game. Quests and Temple building are the only two ways of affecting the score currently.

In case you aren't aware, here is a way to rehabilitate your divine reputation.

Once you do get a holy tile, Humans have the easiest time manipulating the reputation score, as they can build 7 out of the 8 temples. Building a temple to either Helia or Agrela will increase your reputation with Dauros (up until about 60+ reputation, when it starts pissing Dauros off). Once the temple is built, you can then raze the city, destroying the temple but keeping the altered divine reputation. Just make sure to rebuild with an undead settler if you want Paladins of Death.

 

[unmerged(170187)]

In case you aren't aware, here is a way to rehabilitate your divine reputation.

Once you do get a holy tile, Humans have the easiest time manipulating the reputation score, as they can build 7 out of the 8 temples. Building a temple to either Helia or Agrela will increase your reputation with Dauros (up until about 60+ reputation, when it starts pissing Dauros off). Once the temple is built, you can then raze the city, destroying the temple but keeping the altered divine reputation. Just make sure to rebuild with an undead settler if you want Paladins of Death.

As I mentioned I'm playing undead. And trying to play a purist style this game, razing any cities that aren't undead and only building undead/neutral units. Being more limited on their choice of Temples I've gone with Krolm in hopes of pulling it back close enough that my next holy land can build Temple of Dauros.

Thanks for the advice though.

 

[The Apprentice]

Well, playing a pure style throws a wrench into things. I don't know if Krolm will work. Post if it does or does not work out?

 

[unmerged(170187)]

It did not work. I was at -13 to Dauros before I build the temple to Krolm and I'm still -13. Problem is Dauros is all by himself over there and no other undead gods nearby to pull it in that direction. The others are all close enough that as long as you get 1 you can pull it in that direction.

God worship is an important choice in the game and leaving it up to random chance from some quest that rend your strategy completely undo able, or at the least make it extremely difficult to implement, I don't feel is a good game design choice.

They should add a new building to that game like an Idol or Shrine that gives you +5 Relationship with God so that you can more easily move in the direction you want. Also Godly quest should not appear until you have an Idol/Shrine/Temple and a positive rating with that god. Nothing is more annoying and seemingly out of place then having a god who you have a large negative relationship with suddenly ask you to complete a quest for them.

 

[unmerged(494828)]

Negative relations with Dauros means positive relations with Fervus, Crypta and Lunord. You could base your strategy on this.
I'm not fun of random events making strategic choices for players, but wouldn't say that's a major problem.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

Making it random instead of chosen (unless many perk points are invested into one god) does throw a wrench in any "god strategies" (such as going Dauros for dispell-immunity as said in another thread), and you have to work with what you've got.
Which will seperate the good players who can adapt from those who just try to go a pre-defined path each time (and thus also hate randomness like in the spell-selection)...

So, overall, it's fine by me...

 

[unmerged(494828)]

I agree. If you want to focus on one god strategy - pick the god at mage generation. If you pick other perks, you mark other areas as more important, so player should be ready to some randomness in religion.

 

[The Apprentice]

Thanks for confirming that gods two slots away don't easily affect one another. I agree with that strat games with some randomness improve playability, which is a good thing. Otherwise I'd have my AoL's in every playthrough.

I did like your suggestion of a constructable +5 shrine/idol type structure. Perhaps build-able only at 10+ size cities, to make manipulation in the early game. Maybe post it in the suggestions thread?

 

[unmerged(170187)]

Well there are curtain things that randomness does help playability. But when that randomness can effect what units and abilities you have access to that can be a serious problem. The random order in which spells are researched is not the same as not getting access to those god's spells or temple units. If your strategy is to build a curtain unit type and then upgrade them to that temple unit once you get a piece of holy land. Only to have a random quest mess things up to the point that now you potentially need 2 or more holy land locations to offset otherwise your strategy is screwed.

Randomness in the start of a game is fine. During the middle of gameplay though when it really matters is when it can be a problem. For example you have two equally matched players in MP and one of the has a quest that ends up negatively impacting the relationship with the god they were aiming for. This means the player who's strategy was not interfered with will be able to upgrade their level/perk boosted troops into their temple versions right away. While the player who got hit with the quest will be forced to rely on non-temple units until they can swing their Deity favor back around, assume they can at all.

Humans may have the most versatility but that means you need to make a human settler, move that settler to the holy site, wait for city to grow, then wait for temple to build. The last two alone take over 10 turns. And if your not already playing humans or happen to have a human city nearby then it could take a while to get those settlers into position. That can easily set you back 20+ turns in getting the temple units you were originally aiming for as part of your strategy. And of course there is already discussions on how some temple units are better then others.

Sid Meier Keynote - He talks about Random events during this part of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY7aRJE-oOY#t=27m25s

 

[The Apprentice]

Speaking as someone who played a lot of Sword of the Stars, I see the potential for a god quest to screw up your strat as akin to not having access to a top level weapon because of the Random Tech Tree.

That game, SotS, was better for it. It prevented the emergence of optimal build strategies because the top tech options were always random each game. There was a core group of techs that were always present, and adapting by using the core & random helped keep the game fresh.

Temple units are high power units that the game can make difficult for some players to acquire (See, turn intensive Human Settler Option). While it can be annoying from time to time from a player perspective, having to adjust your strat in the mid-game isn't a bad thing imo. As others have said, if you want to commit to a certain god strat, just buy the favor trait at game setup. Then, even 3 negative god events won't prevent you from building the temple you want.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Well, it's not game fault why you choose not to use some of games tools at disposal. Like building human/monster cities of adjacent god, on holy site.

That inflexibility is preventing you to adapt to game events.

 

[unmerged(493757)]

I like being screwed by randomness, i mean, it does not happen as often as you succeed in beating the randomness. It is fun to lose sometimes.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

Also, remember, it happens to all players.

So it's not like one player gets advantage due to it... and if it does happen, just play another MP game... next time, it might be you.

 

[unmerged(507990)]

I think a quick and easy fix that would be a step in the right direction would be to increase the frequency of quests that give favor with gods but are not related to building a temple, like the kill infidels. With more quests given there would still be a random factor involved, but you would have some control by making choices on which ones to complete or not complete based on which god you wanted to like/dislike you.