Gain non core provinces for no BB?

[unmerged(44386)]

Playing England I 100% control *not own* Provence (Maine and Provence provinces) in a defensive war (war from 1419), its now 1451 and France just annexed Provence by event, except I *as England* now own Provence and to top it off I gained no BB for it.

Never noticed this before , does anyone know if it occurs with all inheritence events? that is no BB for provinces

*edit*

 

[Duke of Wellington]

For getting core provinces in a war there is no BB.

 

[unmerged(44386)]

For getting core provinces in a war there is no BB.

Sure duke, I understand this , but Im England and England has no cores on any part of France

and this is not a peace deal, I was only in control of said provinces, then the message came up that France annexed them, then I saw that I as England owned them and no BB was had

 

[unmerged(1047)]

I never noticed the no-BB, but I have seen ownership go to the controlling country if someone is inherited by event while losing a war.... (I had Brittany get Maine this exact way the last time I played Castile... when I play France I usually suck up Provence before the inheritance...)

The only other cases I've seen this commonly happen in are the inheritance of Brabant (most recently the province was Luxembourg, picked up this way by Palatinate; I was France at peace at the time) and Aragon (I saw the Papal States pick up Naples and Apulia this way during my most recent OE game, while I was off conquering Croatia).

 

[unmerged(44386)]

I never noticed the no-BB, but I have seen ownership go to the controlling country if someone is inherited by event while losing a war.... (I had Brittany get Maine this exact way the last time I played Castile... when I play France I usually suck up Provence before the inheritance...)

If you inherit Provence as France though you will get alot less BB, which is especially good if you help em grow big

The only other cases I've seen this commonly happen in are the inheritance of Brabant (most recently the province was Luxembourg, picked up this way by Palatinate; I was France at peace at the time) and Aragon (I saw the Papal States pick up Naples and Apulia this way during my most recent OE game, while I was off conquering Croatia).

Cool, almost makes me feel like bringing out the pure evil gameyness side in me....*Goes out and starts planning to take control of Bohemia, Hungary, Lithuania, Aragon*.....who else? at certain time periods :rofl:

 

[unmerged(45766)]

Indeed, it works with all inheritances. When the command inherit is issued by an event, any country that controls a province of the inherited country gets to keep it for himself, without BB. For all I know, it works the same as the "secedeprovince" command : no BB, no notice. I haven't checked nationalism, and I don't remember if there is any.
This is what I'd call a VERY BIG EXPLOIT, especially if you previously lead your future prey to grow.


In vanilla, this is indeed most useful vs Bohemia, Hungary, Lithuania, Aragon, who are big. This won't work with Burgundy, since Burgundy isn't inherited as long as it is at war.

This would also work with the Huguenots/Ultra-Catholics AFAIK, but I've never tried with those. Works too with Norway IIRC, Brabant, Cyprus (I'm not sure of the triggers for this last one, but I don't think it needs peace), Naples, Milan (same remark as Cyprus), Prussia. Maybe a few others I might be forgetting.

Works BIG with China when it gets inherited by Manchu, and with Mameluks if you manage to get the Ottomans in Egypt province while you take the rest.

 

[jonti-h]

I never noticed the no-BB, but I have seen ownership go to the controlling country if someone is inherited by event while losing a war.... (I had Brittany get Maine this exact way the last time I played Castile...

Yep, I got that when I was playing as the UK at war with France - they inherited Provence, which I occupied at the time, so I got it (was at war with them too!) I don't think I got BB for that.

 

[unmerged(45766)]

Yep, I got that when I was playing as the UK at war with France - they inherited Provence, which I occupied at the time, so I got it (was at war with them too!) I don't think I got BB for that.

I certify : you didn't. Bright move.

 

[jonti-h]

I certify : you didn't. Bright move.

I didn't? Great! Thanks!
I see what you mean about a huge exploit!

 

[unmerged(45766)]

I didn't? Great! Thanks!
I see what you mean about a huge exploit!

Yeah. I figured it out over a year ago, but I prefered not to speak about it. And not to use it either.

But since TRD has hit it, I might as well provide my knowledge about this feature.

 

[unmerged(44386)]

Indeed, it works with all inheritances. When the command inherit is issued by an event, any country that controls a province of the inherited country gets to keep it for himself, without BB. For all I know, it works the same as the "secedeprovince" command : no BB, no notice. I haven't checked nationalism, and I don't remember if there is any.
This is what I'd call a VERY BIG EXPLOIT, especially if you previously lead your future prey to grow.

I just checked, there is nationalism. I really dont plan on purposely using it. Im an extremely gamey player (MA with countries Im at war with/sync looting/stealing colonies - building them into cities and giving them back to lose BB etc), however this goes way beyond that.

 

[unmerged(45766)]

I just checked, there is nationalism. I really dont plan on purposely using it. Im an extremely gamey player, however this goes way beyond that.

Thanks for the check. It slightly reduces the "exploit level", tough not by much.


One country I forgot : Aztecs. However, you need to have Spain taking their capital, so this might be a bit more difficult. It's to compare with the Mamluks/Ottomans problem.
For europeans, turbo-inheriting (yeah, I even devised a name for that ) the Aztecs is of no use since you'd get them for no BB whatever. But for non-europeans, this is good, as a force-annexion of pagans costs 1 BB per province, +2 BB if the non-european is also pagan. However, due to that difference with europeans, and the fact that if you're in a position to turbo-inherit the Aztecs you're already far-ahead and shouldn't be penalized that much compared to europeans, the exploit level is low.

 

[unmerged(44386)]

turbo-inheriting (yeah, I even devised a name for that )

:rofl: :rofl:

 

[Rwn]

I recently made the same discovery when I played Ottomans with AGCEEP, I invaded a quite big (more than 10 provinces) Kara Koyunlu aiming for a religious conversion. I was about to succeed (only 1 province remaining) when they decided to join Aq Koyunlu, which only inherited the 1 distant province remaining...

 

[imb39]

Well, I suppose it makes sense, to a point - the country has collapsed and has been divided up. However, other countries should be alarmed by the sudden changes of borders.

 

[unmerged(15337)]

Kudos to Ambassador for the new term "turbo-inheriting" -- very cool!

I have experienced this, though rarely. I agree that it would be a gross exploit if done deliberately.

Added to the list of possible victims: How about Delhi if the Mughals are good, but not too good?

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Isn't there a NOT atwar trigger on that event? There should be one on all of these events.

In vanilla, this is indeed most useful vs Bohemia, Hungary, Lithuania, Aragon, who are big. This won't work with Burgundy, since Burgundy isn't inherited as long as it is at war.

This would also work with the Huguenots/Ultra-Catholics AFAIK, but I've never tried with those.

Yes it's very effective as them. If, as England you've left France with one or two provinces you can release both FUC and HUG and occupy all their provinces to shed about 10 BB points.

Cleves is another inheritance that can occasionally be exploited. I can confirm that Norway can also be exploited. I suppose that Sweden could if they took the ahistoric event choice.

I spent some time about 3 years ago adding NOT atwar triggers to all the inheritance events in the EEP. So none of the EEP events that still exist in the AGCEEP can be exploited this way. If I were to be able to find the thread I had a complete list of all exploitable inheritances.

edit: Britanny can be exploited too.
edit2: And Pommerania
edit3: And Lorraine

 

[unmerged(45766)]

Adding a non-atwar trigger on most of the inheritance events is indeed a good answer to that exploit, but this raises another problem : too often a country is at war far too long. If you add a non-atwar trigger on an event, you also have to add an offset and a far-sighted deathdate.

Also, some of these "inheritance" events do not depict true inheritance. The Mamluks, China, Burgundy, Hungarian, and many other, "inheritances" happened during historical times of war. It is in fact very dumb that Burgundy's inheritance has in fact a non-atwar trigger while IRL the Duke was at war with France and the Swisses, among others.

 

[Underhand]

I discussed these sorts of exploits with idlf in his EP discussion thread and noted that an atwar = no trigger would stop them, but on the other hand such triggers allow the player to prevent the inheritance by staying at war with the inheritee until the event's death date is past. It's less of a problem, but still far from ideal.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Adding a non-atwar trigger on most of the inheritance events is indeed a good answer to that exploit, but this raises another problem : too often a country is at war far too long. If you add a non-atwar trigger on an event, you also have to add an offset and a far-sighted deathdate.

This is exactly how it was handled in the EEP, and as a result in the EEP events that remain in the AGCEEP. Of course since 1.07 it is now much easier to stay at war for 40 years, but it's still a significant burden to use Underhand's approach to prevent the inheritances from happening.

Also, some of these "inheritance" events do not depict true inheritance. The Mamluks, China, Burgundy, Hungarian, and many other, "inheritances" happened during historical times of war.

Is it possible to "secede" the provinces? (For those who don't know "secede" is the command used in EU2 to cede provinces from one country to another.) By which I mean have the inheritee "secede" most of it's provinces to the inheritor before using the inherit command? What happens to controlled provinces that are "seceded"?

It is in fact very dumb that Burgundy's inheritance has in fact a non-atwar trigger while IRL the Duke was at war with France and the Swisses, among others.

Nitpicking: Burgundy wasn't at war with France in 1477. Lorraine, various towns in Alsace, the Swiss, but not with Louis XI. Louis was supporting all of Charles' enemies, of course, but wasn't at war.