Further development of the Game?

[filmaty98]

Ive been warned before talking about abandonware and I dont know if Iron Cross is abandonware so no and double no. And I know the developer complained about lack of store access in the past so no, I dont know where to buy it anymore. The store I bought it form doesnt sell it anymore.

Best tip would be looking for CD Keys on CD Key markets that are a legal source of purchasing to my knowledge.

Also as I´ve explained and as the person above explained, youre not the first to ask about merger and you´re a decade late and people don´t want to air old laundry.
I.e. its been suggested, its a good suggestion but it wont happen and nobody who knows about it really wants to talk about it nor is there any point.

The problem is, that ten years ago I guess noone would probably think, that direction in which paradox would develop its games will end up as sandbox casual little-monsters like victoria 3 or hoi4 for example. These are games with a little mechanics, simple, easy to play, purely for casual player, new paradox customer. I do not know about any Darkest hour - like game, nor any more hardcore, complicated game currently under development or at least in plans for development, and I guess there will be no such game. Moreover, there are no other studios which create GSG games that are no turn-based. Therefore asking about revival of DH or AoD is probably the best and the only hope for development of hardcore old-style games of paradox. Probably it is indeed airing old laundry and some people do not want it, but I also guess they'd happily welcome potential effects of such cooperation.

 

[Rolexovsky]

Do you know any source where can one buy Iron Cross? Or at least download?

You can get Iron Cross from this forum, the dev is hosting it here. It's got its own section like DH and is still being updated. It's a weird animal, but I do come back to it occasionally for the wackiness. Doesn't allow me to paste the link, so just look for it I guess.

 

[macgregor2150]

I had AOD first actually. But once I had DH, never played it again. Not that it's bad. In the end, there's probably a proper place for both games. AOD I think gets mentioned for having some immersive features. I'm sure that's probably true, and an advantage in singleplayer.

But as a game game; a game that can be played competitively, DH is by far my favorite even as other games whiz by it with their fancy graphics and immersive production planning. The difference is the amount of historic data. I also think that in this game they managed to inject the value of command properly, displaying many leaders.

DH may never see a substantial upgrade, which would indeed be tragedy. But even so, this game will be around for decades. People will save their old computers just to play this game. Because even with it's flaws, it's that good.

 

[Josh365]

I've suggested a few times an idea for a new Darkest Hour sequel:

Idea for Darkest Hour sequel

Hello, I have an idea for a sequel to Darkest Hour. I have developed a Mod with the E3FN map. I'm also adding more sprites for divisions. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/domination-of-the-draka-main-thread.1512748/ I'm thinking I...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

It would use the E3-FN map as well as all the other improvements I introduced in my Draka mod.

See also a showcase of all the new graphics I've included in my mod:

Domination of the Draka: Main Thread

This mod has been around before. There were some bugs which I managed to fix. I decided to share my work. The game is still officially in a Beta stage. I have run the game through to the end of WW2 many times and have found there are no...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[filmaty98]

I've suggested a few times an idea for a new Darkest Hour sequel:

Idea for Darkest Hour sequel

Hello, I have an idea for a sequel to Darkest Hour. I have developed a Mod with the E3FN map. I'm also adding more sprites for divisions. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/domination-of-the-draka-main-thread.1512748/ I'm thinking I...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

It would use the E3-FN map as well as all the other improvements I introduced in my Draka mod.

View attachment 934303

See also a showcase of all the new graphics I've included in my mod:

Domination of the Draka: Main Thread

This mod has been around before. There were some bugs which I managed to fix. I decided to share my work. The game is still officially in a Beta stage. I have run the game through to the end of WW2 many times and have found there are no...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

I've read your threads, and honestly I don't think it is good idea for a few reasons:

1. Making DH sequel on the same over 10 yrs old Europa Engine would be just a crime. Improving present DH and introducing some new features, even as DLC's - fine. It is improvement of already existing game, with all of its mods still available to play. But making the whole new game on the same old engine, which has its great limitations, and above all bad (horrific) ergonomy of interface is just a bad idea.
2. Noone will pay you for DH sequel, which would be de facto the same DH but with simply more sprites, animations, photos and graphics, for three reasons:
   1. You can get more graphics, pictures, photos, sprites, better map and more provinces with better layout completely for free, there are dozens of mods for DH
   2. If someone is still playing DH in 2023 then he clearly does not care about fancy graphics/animations but rather either for mechanics either nostalgia
   3. If you'd made DH sequel on the same engine it would inherit every single bug from Europa Engine, which either you'd have to fix, either your sequel would be simply mechanically inferior to original DH, and above all I highly doubt if either team, DH-team either AoD-team would like to share for free theirs partly-patched versions of the engine, especially for free.
3. To be honest again - at least to my mind the number of provinces in DH is optimal for its specific combat system, with no battle AI help for player. Less provinces = less micromanagement, more provinces = more micromanagement, and micromanagemant increases rather exponentially than linear in such cases. With current state of ergonomy of interface in DH at least to my mind it would be just masochism to micromanage all of divisions with more provinces.

If you're making mods - very good. If you'd like to get paid for it - very well again, it is just to demand payment for your work, just put some link to parteon or sth like that, or put your mod on outer website with paywall. Maybe someone would buy it or become your parteon. But if you're asking (me at least), if there's market for DH sequel, which would be de facto DH but with better graphics and more provinces, then (my) answer is no, because I know it would be simply worse game than current DH (because of micromanagement and bugs issues), just with more, better graphics.

If such sequel would be on new engine, or at least far more improved Europa Engine, and by "far improved", I mean really "far", ex: greater fluent map zoom, better interface ergonomy, new mechanics, like maybe reserve divisions, political laws etc. with old ones kept, bug fixes, compatibility with DH mods, some sort of battle AI, without nail in the brain in case of addition of bigger map int a sequel - then the answer would be yes. I'd happily buy such game, even for 30-40$. But again, many of these mentioned here engine improvements are already under construction by both DH and AoD teams. It takes them a long time. Sure. But they are doing it. And they are doing it for free (at least for now).

And above all I cannot see any reasonable cause, why these teams would give you acces to their work, unless you're their member. Maybe they'd hire you if you're good enough for them, and maybe that's the way you should investigate and follow?

Anyway, Godspeed to you with your idea. Maybe others think differently than me.

 

[macgregor2150]

Not being able to see the road ahead, is no reason to grab the wheel. Any sequel to this game will ultimately live or die on the vision of the person(s) creating it. I can envision a sequel, exactly what it would have, and I realize everyone else may have their own. But IMO this game is ultimately simulating history from a map's perspective. The depiction of this 3D map and out-of-scale sprites is not working or me. A sequel I would make, would not even require sprites at all.

What it could do, is display battles better. Here's where you can add details about equipment, uniforms and tactics used. If you have a mixed stack arm-inf all set to attack, the faster moving units are naturally creating phalanxes and pincers(unless set to synchronized arrival). This could all be displayed on a battle display filling the screen with the province while perhaps slowing the time down to increments of minutes rather than hours, or remain at the slowest speed, and could look as operational or tactical, with as much or little player interaction as you want it to have. Air and sea battles could all be made much more immersive allowing more detailed orders given in addition to a more entertaining display as well. It's been so long coming, personally I would be surprised greatly if anything will ever be done. But I won't use that as a reason to say it either can't or shouldn't be done.

 

[Wide Boy]

Paradox won't allow another commercial DLC or product for HOI2/DD as HOI4 is the priority and they would not want any sales taken away from HOI4.
As they have the licence they won't allow any other commercial projects.
Our only hope are the efforts of modders who do the work for free. God bless them!
Potentially a kickstarter could be done but the resulting product would have to be free and not be sold.
When I retire (one day!) I do hope to bring the best people together and produce a major HOI2 refresh for the community (and funded by me). That's my dream anyway

There are a few mods still alive and being updated:

AOD mod : Iron Fist (not to be confused wiht Iron Cross)

New Mod for Arsenal of Democracy: Irön Fist

Irön Fist Version 1.00 Aviable from 1 November 2019 Latest version 1.471 from 09/03/2023. Download always the latest version of Irön Fist mod from this links: Click here and download Irön Fist Alternative link for download Irön Fist If you...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

AOD mod : Improved 1936

Improved 1936

Improved 1936, aka "The Imp" THE MOD USES 1.12 VALUES. MAKE SURE TO INSTALL IT! Support for 1.09 or older versions is no longer guaranteed. The scenario will be updated by using latest 1.12 patches. Changes to the 1.12 vanilla 1936 scenario...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

DH mod : Blood & Iron

Blood & Iron for Darkest Hour

Blood & Iron merges the best modders work for Darkest Hour from the past years and expands on it for an immersive WWII and WWI grand strategy experience. Features: - Mod built on World in Flames 2 latest version which includes WWI scenario with...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

DH mod : EODAIP

EODAIP - an AI focused Darkest Hour Mod

Hi, I'm a dude who likes to mod AIs in various games. I really enjoyed playing Darkest Hour, but it didn't take very long to notice that it's not really a gameplay-focused game, which felt pretty weird. The AI is literally incapable of winning...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

DH mod : All in One Gold Edition

All In One Gold Edition (AIOGE)

It is with great pride and happiness that I present to you all a whole new version of All_in_One mod for Darkest Hour: With my endless love for Darkest Hour and thousands of hours spent in it, I decided to further improve my favorite mod-...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

DH mod : Total Realism Project

TRP 1.04 (February 11, 2018)

Total Realism Project 1.04 Checksum: JLAD (1.04A), ELMC (1.04) February 11, 2018 For general information on our mod, please click here. Please be reminded that using (parts of) the TRP mod in other modding projects is only allowed with our...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

DH mod : Mod'33

Mod33 V2.5

Based on Mod33 V2 The mod is compatible with version 1.5.x Localized into all major languages using my fork HoI2Editor. All texts from event files auto-exported to csv file. Machine translation done using google translate documents. Fixed...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Apologies to any I have missed

 

[KostasL]

DH may never see a substantial upgrade, which would indeed be tragedy. But even so, this game will be around for decades. People will save their old computers just to play this game. Because even with it's flaws, it's that good.

That is soooo true!

 

[Nick3210]

To be honest again - at least to my mind the number of provinces in DH is optimal for its specific combat system, with no battle AI help for player. Less provinces = less micromanagement, more provinces = more micromanagement, and micromanagemant increases rather exponentially than linear in such cases. With current state of ergonomy of interface in DH at least to my mind it would be just masochism to micromanage all of divisions with more provinces.

Lord! Please put an understanding of this very simple but most important aspect into the brains of everyone who will ever try to make another Hoi-game!
Amen!

They have already totally destroyed Hoi3 and Hoi4 by millions of microscopical provinces! It would be really a disaster if any attempts to improve Hoi2/DH will start with the same catastrophic mistake - to make a map with millions of microscopical provinces. "More" doesn't mean "better" in this case!
DH-Full map have ideal total number of badly-made provinces. Please, no more provinces on any new Hoi map, than DH have!

 

[macgregor2150]

Instead of more provinces, I'd like to see a more detailed fullscreen battle display perhaps toggled with a hotkey or dbl click, showing a more detailed zoomed in rendition of the selected province with phalanxes and pincers, along with accurate info on equipment, uniforms, and tactics. If there's to be effort put into animation, that's where I think it should go.

 

[Slaughter]

Lord! Please put an understanding of this very simple but most important aspect into the brains of everyone who will ever try to make another Hoi-game!
Amen!

They have already totally destroyed Hoi3 and Hoi4 by millions of microscopical provinces! It would be really a disaster if any attempts to improve Hoi2/DH will start with the same catastrophic mistake - to make a map with millions of microscopical provinces. "More" doesn't mean "better" in this case!
DH-Full map have ideal total number of badly-made provinces. Please, no more provinces on any new Hoi map, than DH have!

Hard disagree.

The E3 map is so much better than the vanilla one its not even funny, sorry.
Few provinces are bad because they tend to degenerate wars into Doomstack vs Doomstack slapfights.

Heck, I use the E3 map in my mod and I think its North America is too full of big chunky provinces, and plan to do some map changing in the future to add x3-x5 more provinces as needed. Granted, all my action is entirely in NA (which is usually overlooked in most HOI maps), but my point stands.
I can't wait until we get more mods using E3 and E3-FN maps, it will really improve them.

I am pretty sure HOI3 and HOI4's real issues are other ones.

 

[Nick3210]

The E3 map is so much better than the vanilla one its not even funny, sorry.

Once I saw a random screen of Australia on the "E3 map" for Hoi - and was horrified to discover that there are incredibly many provinces in Australia. *facepalm*

I thought, wow, damn it, these people who made this Map, probably have never looked at a geographical Map and do not know that Australia, from the point of view of waging war there, is just one huge desert, on the edges of which there are green islands of life along the coast, the possession of which means full control of Australia.

I'm sorry to say this, but what I saw as Australia on this "E3 map" is absolutely ridiculous.
Small provinces for Hoi2 Map are appropriate in Europe or in China or in another important war-theatres.
But to divide a desert which have absolutely no interest into dozens of little provinces is completely absurd!

It was enough for me to look at the screen of Australia to conclude that the rest of the "E3 map" is also made in the same ridiculous and illogical way.
----------------------------------------

There is no doubt that such a map as the "E3 map" could be used as a good basis for creating a good new map for HOI2.

But only in the case of large and clever work on it - to combine all excessively small provinces into large ones, totally reducing the number of unnecessary small provinces where they are ridiculous and unnecessary, like in Australia.

Also worth bearing in mind that the more provinces is on the map - the more time-consuming work needs to be done to set all these provinces with the right geographical coordinates, right connections/disconnections, right terrain types, right climate, right beaches/ports, right infrastructure, right MP/IC and resources.

This is incredibly tedious and painstaking work that takes tons of time.
For many years of hard work (!) I have been able to make correct provinces only for the most important combat theaters for the vanilla DH Map.

What is the probability that there will be the same crazy enthusiast who will make provinces with high-quality accuracy for a map in which there are several times more provinces than in DH?
I predict this probability is zero.
No one will make provinces with high-quality accuracy for such a huge number of provinces, because it will take years of work for free.
Therefore, I predict a simple pattern, for work for free on any new Hoi2 map: the more provinces will be on the map - the less geographical quality/realism these provinces will have.

 

[filmaty98]

Honestly, I do not really understand why to discuss the issue of number of provinces here that are appropiate for DH. Sorry, but it is at least to my mind absolutely closed issue.

1. In DH there's no battle AI to help in ANY way with divisions micromanagement, all orders you have to give manually
2. In DH unlike than in hoi3 and hoi4, there are more than 3 useful orders for units. There are literally whole tabs only for giving orders, for land, air, and naval units, each tab with different orders, which also allows to time set these orders up to one hour.

And now multiply number of provinces let's say 2 or 3 times like some of you want it.

Now imagine that you're playing French/Brits/any other country with large number of divisions which also has colonies or far theatre to conduct war, like both simoultanesly Europe and Africa or Pacific, and East Indies etc. let's say.

Godspeed with trying to micromanage all of this, trying to avoid encirclements, beeing outflanked, keeping coherent frontline and also keep some NORMAL game speed, like not to waste 5 min for one ingame day.

And where is management of economy, diplomacy, research etc.?

The truth is, that maybe map could looks better. Maybe some provinces could be better shaped. Maybe DH with more provinces looks "more modern". But the truth is also that, obiectively, multiplication of the number of provinces would shift the balance of ingame micromanagement unproportionally towards moving units, basically for no reason and therefore it would kill any other gameplay as well as the game speed (in terms of time required for micromanagement).

I'm sorry to say this, but if you're this kind of guy who loves to move independently every single regiment or brigade on map, then DH is just not game for you. You'd
probably like HoI3 with stunning number of provinces and ability to literally command every single regiment, but not DH. DH gameplay much more relies on managing whole country than only moving divisions on tactical lvl. DH is probably one of the last trully "Grand Strategy Games" where you have absolute control on almost every aspect of your country (ofc only to some dagree), and let it be this way. Please, do not try to make DH some HoI4 clone which relies heavly only on moving divisons, where other aspects of gameplay are neglected, because it will just kill this game.

 

[macgregor2150]

Honestly, I do not really understand why to discuss the issue of number of provinces here that are appropiate for DH. Sorry, but it is at least to my mind absolutely closed issue.

1. In DH there's no battle AI to help in ANY way with divisions micromanagement, all orders you have to give manually
2. In DH unlike than in hoi3 and hoi4, there are more than 3 useful orders for units. There are literally whole tabs only for giving orders, for land, air, and naval units, each tab with different orders, which also allows to time set these orders up to one hour.

And now multiply number of provinces let's say 2 or 3 times like some of you want it.

Now imagine that you're playing French/Brits/any other country with large number of divisions which also has colonies or far theatre to conduct war, like both simoultanesly Europe and Africa or Pacific, and East Indies etc. let's say.

Godspeed with trying to micromanage all of this, trying to avoid encirclements, beeing outflanked, keeping coherent frontline and also keep some NORMAL game speed, like not to waste 5 min for one ingame day.

And where is management of economy, diplomacy, research etc.?

The truth is, that maybe map could looks better. Maybe some provinces could be better shaped. Maybe DH with more provinces looks "more modern". But the truth is also that, obiectively, multiplication of the number of provinces would shift the balance of ingame micromanagement unproportionally towards moving units, basically for no reason and therefore it would kill any other gameplay as well as the game speed (in terms of time required for micromanagement).

I'm sorry to say this, but if you're this kind of guy who loves to move independently every single regiment or brigade on map, then DH is just not game for you. You'd
probably like HoI3 with stunning number of provinces and ability to literally command every single regiment, but not DH. DH gameplay much more relies on managing whole country than only moving divisions on tactical lvl. DH is probably one of the last trully "Grand Strategy Games" where you have absolute control on almost every aspect of your country (ofc only to some dagree), and let it be this way. Please, do not try to make DH some HoI4 clone which relies heavly only on moving divisons, where other aspects of gameplay are neglected, because it will just kill this game.

I first saw E3 as the future, but have since changed my mind. I see a direction for the game. But for me, I really need to have a map that looks like a map -a detailed map, with textures that overlay possession, and square NATO counters. The modded DH map(Blood and Iron) is fine with me.

Doubleclick or a hotkey should allow me to zoom in on just that province to get better detail on units there. If there's combat, it should display the actual battle line with faster units forging ahead, forming pincers perhaps -unless set to synchronized arrival. Battle progress in the game is linear. I don't expect to see fancy maneuvers or division placement beyond linear. Encirclement, and seeing visually when which unit is about to become vulnerable for counterattack, would be nice.

Perhaps add a tactic or disposition setting like transport for faster movement at increased vulnerability. Ships could have a formation setting and planes could be set to an attack tactic, such as dive, skip or level bombing (low-med-high). Perhaps restrict a given tactic or disposition to leaders(or units) with such skill. I love how the game can pile on combat modifiers.

The DH battle display is concise and displays a lot of info. With the ability to toggle the province fullscreen, it could display that info in a more immersive way.

 

[macgregor2150]

It would be great if modders and developers would start their own YouTube channels and patreon accounts. This way players could get a better idea of where each modder/developer is going and support them accordingly. No bucks, no Buck Rogers.

 

[Wide Boy]

It would be great if modders and developers would start their own YouTube channels and patreon accounts. This way players could get a better idea of where each modder/developer is going and support them accordingly. No bucks, no Buck Rogers.

You can follow the AOD update team on their discord server. Unfortantely there isn't a similar for DH that I am aware of.
I like the idea of patreon but with so quite a few mods and not a big enough fan base it probably wouldn't generate much. I would love to be proved wrong though

 

[Slaughter]

It would be great if modders and developers would start their own YouTube channels and patreon accounts. This way players could get a better idea of where each modder/developer is going and support them accordingly. No bucks, no Buck Rogers.

That's a good initiative.

Well, I for one have a Discord over here: FODD Discord Link

(sorry for the shameless plug, but I think that was my cue!)

No Patreon tho. Wouldn't be fair of me, I think - its not an entirely mine mod, after all.