fun MtG naval stars (only 4 battlecruisers!)

[Pellaken]

I've been working on gathering a ton of data for the wiki; as part of that I'm going nation to nation in 1936 writing down what they all start with. There's still more work to do; like I want to record whips being built and so on; but I wanted to share some fun naval data I've found:

There are only 4 battlecruisers when the game starts!

 

[banana_joe]

I didn't know the Turkish Navy had a battlecruiser in the 30s. A quick wiki search and it turns out they continued to use a German battlecruiser they had acquired at the eve of WW1. Interesting stuff.

That aside, this is pretty historical, battlecruisers sadly fell out of fashion after WW1 ended.

 

[Pied-Noir]

I think the four Kongo-class ships probably ought to be battlecruisers. Yes, they did receive refits and were reclassified as fast battleships, but they weren't really, and they blew up pretty quickly once they went up against proper battleships.

If only for variety's sake, and also to better represent their speed-armor ratio, I think it'd make sense.

 

[banana_joe]

I think the four Kongo-class ships probably ought to be battlecruisers. Yes, they did receive refits and were reclassified as fast battleships, but they weren't really, and they blew up pretty quickly once they went up against proper battleships.

If only for variety's sake, and also to better represent their speed-armor ratio, I think it'd make sense.

Well, you could argue the same for the German Scharnhorst class, which were classified as battlecruisers by the Royal Navy. But both classes were classified as proper BBs by their respective navies so it's easy to see why Pdx went with that

 

[Pied-Noir]

Well, you could argue the same for the German Scharnhorst class, which were classified as battlecruisers by the Royal Navy. But both classes were classified as proper BBs by their respective navies so it's easy to see why Pdx went with that

It's true that the RN rated them as battlecruisers, but the Scharnhorst class were over-armored and under-gunned, whereas the Kongos were certainly lacking in armor rather than firepower.

It's up to the developers, certainly - and with the new custom modules they can be played around with a bit more, but I certainly think the Kongos should have the battlecruiser hull/armor layout (which is what determines their class in-game).

 

[chegevara]

It could be interesting to add a column to this table with number of naval dockyards, to see a starting fleet + ability to increase it.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

I still maintain my opinion that the Kongo-class should be BC instead of BB. A capital ship with 14" guns, 8" inch belt armor, and going at 30 knots is definitely a BC, not a BB.

 

[Pellaken]

It could be interesting to add a column to this table with number of naval dockyards, to see a starting fleet + ability to increase it.

thats the plan in the long term. I want to be able to compare nations starting positions, so I'll be adding data on factories, half-built ships, resources, population, and all that.

 

[Pied-Noir]

I still maintain my opinion that the Kongo-class should be BC instead of BB. A capital ship with 14" guns, 8" inch belt armor, and going at 30 knots is definitely a BC, not a BB.

I haven't tried yet, but is it not possible to refit battlecruisers into battleships, or at least make them better-armored so they're more akin to a battlecruiser/fast battleship type concept?

If so, the player could choose to do this with the Kongos, which is basically what the IJN wanted to do anyway.

So, they could be changed to battlecruisers, and the player (or AI?) withdraw them from service and refit them as fast battleships should they so wish. (This is, after all, what the RN wanted to do with the Hood, but there wasn't time).

 

[SchwarzKatze]

I haven't tried yet, but is it not possible to refit battlecruisers into battleships, or at least make them better-armored so they're more akin to a battlecruiser/fast battleship type concept?

If so, the player could choose to do this with the Kongos, which is basically what the IJN wanted to do anyway.

So, they could be changed to battlecruisers, and the player (or AI?) withdraw them from service and refit them as fast battleships should they so wish. (This is, after all, what the RN wanted to do with the Hood, but there wasn't time).

The stats I quoted are post-refit, when the IJN dubbed them "Fast Battleships". Before the refit it was 27.5 knots and 8"-3" incremental armor (uniform 8" post refit)

 

[Pellaken]

sorry to doublepost; but I made a new thread without a type-o in the title https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...g-stats-8599-planes-sov-army-2x-next.1158125/

 

[Znail]

I think the four Kongo-class ships probably ought to be battlecruisers. Yes, they did receive refits and were reclassified as fast battleships, but they weren't really, and they blew up pretty quickly once they went up against proper battleships.

If only for variety's sake, and also to better represent their speed-armor ratio, I think it'd make sense.

They really should as they even got BC armor in the game, but for some reason so are the 3 you start with classified as BB's while the one in construction is a BC wich kind of confuses the task force editor...

 

[Serensius]

Thanks for posting this! I was looking for this exact overview to find a minor to play around with and learn the naval mechanics.

 

[Pied-Noir]

They really should as they even got BC armor in the game, but for some reason so are the 3 you start with classified as BB's while the one in construction is a BC wich kind of confuses the task force editor...

Oh, you're right - that's interesting!

 

[Pied-Noir]

Okay, reported here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ngo-class-ships-have-wrong-ship-type.1158162/

 

[smurfopax]

It's true that the RN rated them as battlecruisers, but the Scharnhorst class were over-armored and under-gunned, whereas the Kongos were certainly lacking in armor rather than firepower.

It's up to the developers, certainly - and with the new custom modules they can be played around with a bit more, but I certainly think the Kongos should have the battlecruiser hull/armor layout (which is what determines their class in-game).

I want to add that the Scharnhorst was only undergunned because of political reasons. Hitler thought the Allies won't be so mad about the Scharnhorst when he sticks to the small guns, the bigger 38cm were already planned for refit. At least for the Gneisenau they did manufacture the upgraded Turrets but never did the refit. Instead the Turrets went into the Coast Defense, i'm not sure if they were installed in Norway or Denmark. Google should answer this.

 

[Snappie88]

If HOL is the Netherlands (NED is probably what you want to use instead): they start with three CL's and three CA's instead of six CA's.

 

[Pied-Noir]

I want to add that the Scharnhorst was only undergunned because of political reasons. Hitler thought the Allies won't be so mad about the Scharnhorst when he sticks to the small guns, the bigger 38cm were already planned for refit. At least for the Gneisenau they did manufacture the upgraded Turrets but never did the refit. Instead the Turrets went into the Coast Defense, i'm not sure if they were installed in Norway or Denmark. Google should answer this.

Yes, this is true, and something I was actually aware of, but it wasn't simply a case of not wanting to piss off the Allies - large caliber battleship guns take a lot of time, effort and skill to create, which is why only a handful of countries in the world ever designed and produced them. The Scharnhorst class had 11" guns and the plan was to replace them with 15" guns when available, but they never were, and after the loss of the Bismarck and the withdrawal of the surface fleet Hitler refused to allow additional resources to be wasted on it.

In-game, I suppose the player could actually choose to withdraw one or both of those ships from service and upgrade their guns?

 

[smurfopax]

Yes, this is true, and something I was actually aware of, but it wasn't simply a case of not wanting to piss off the Allies - large caliber battleship guns take a lot of time, effort and skill to create, which is why only a handful of countries in the world ever designed and produced them. The Scharnhorst class had 11" guns and the plan was to replace them with 15" guns when available, but they never were, and after the loss of the Bismarck and the withdrawal of the surface fleet Hitler refused to allow additional resources to be wasted on it.

In-game, I suppose the player could actually choose to withdraw one or both of those ships from service and upgrade their guns?

Not completly true, the new Turrets for Gneisenau were already in production when Gneisenau was Damaged 1942 and scrapped afterwards. They wanted to integrate the new Turrets in the Coastal Artillery in Oxsby Denmark but never finished the installation. The 28cm Turrets of Gneisenau were modified and reused in Trondheim, one of them is still a place to visit. Very impressive but not as impressive as the 40cm Monster nearby they also have, search for Adolfkanone when you wanna see pictures.

 

[Fragola]

I think the four Kongo-class ships probably ought to be battlecruisers. Yes, they did receive refits and were reclassified as fast battleships, but they weren't really, and they blew up pretty quickly once they went up against proper battleships.

If only for variety's sake, and also to better represent their speed-armor ratio, I think it'd make sense.

In the production screen, the Kongo class is classified as battlecruisers. Hiei, which is being built at the start, is Kongo class, and a battlecruiser once built.

I hope they fix this.