Fun fact: sapmi reindeer hunters have technology to cross Pacific

[josh127]

Nobody said anything about expert sailors, still the evidence that they were building ships exist. You do not believe that I translated statements from book correctly, go find it yourself (or similar one).

Edit: Pizzaro's people encountered cargo naval vessel with 20 people, I assume crew, since there were no tourists at that times. That should be easily confirmable in any university Library which has department dealing either with pre-columbian cultures in south america or with Spanish expansion in new world in 16th century.

You give the Inca too much credit in game. The problem isn't that they can't build ships, the problem is that they totally lack the capacity to learn to build ships on their own.

 

[L_naut]

Make it that if they are in Swedish rule for 50-100 years and get released then they're western. Like "Puff, Gaming Magic!!!"

 

[thegreatuniter]

The hard thing is that the tech group they should have is really dependent on the situation. If they are released in 1700 from a Western sweden, the people that live there would probably have picked up the swedish technology and military standards, so it would make sense for them to be western, or maybe eastern, tech. If they break free in 1480 while nothing has happened in their lands at all, they should probably be in the nomad group or something like that. Maybe religion would be a decent indicator of their level of adoption of Swedish (or Russian/Danish) ways? If they're shamanist, they get Nomad/Chinese tech, if they are christian/muslim they get western or eastern tech.

 

[fridabina]

The hard thing is that the tech group they should have is really dependent on the situation. If they are released in 1700 from a Western sweden, the people that live there would probably have picked up the swedish technology and military standards, so it would make sense for them to be western, or maybe eastern, tech. If they break free in 1480 while nothing has happened in their lands at all, they should probably be in the nomad group or something like that. Maybe religion would be a decent indicator of their level of adoption of Swedish (or Russian/Danish) ways? If they're shamanist, they get Nomad/Chinese tech, if they are christian/muslim they get western or eastern tech.

The problem is, IRL Swedish colonisation as in building cities and the bare minimum of infrastructure started during the 16th century and it wasent until the 17th century they penetrated inland and made settlements. I find it hard to believe that they would manage to form the required institutions just from some minor towns. (These towns would be villages in the rest of europe.)
Perhaps it could be linked to if they are an accepted culture or not. If they start out not accepted and the only way to accept them is to develop them it would make sense if they get Western tech if they manage to break free. Same could be done about other Cultures if the owning nation is of a higher tech group.

 

[zdlugasz]

You give the Inca too much credit in game. The problem isn't that they can't build ships, the problem is that they totally lack the capacity to learn to build ships on their own.

I agree with second part of statement, although I might structure sentecne in slightly different way. I am not sure if I understand first part. If by in game Inca you mean Incan AI I do not give it any credit since AI sucks and underperforms even within their constraints.

If you mean I give too much credit historical Inca, I am just pointing facts, and among them is that unless contemporary sources lied, Spanish encountered trading ships with crew of 20 (in Inca thread I have already given 2 references).

 

[josh127]

I agree with second part of statement, although I might structure sentecne in slightly different way. I am not sure if I understand first part. If by in game Inca you mean Incan AI I do not give it any credit since AI sucks and underperforms even within their constraints.

By in-game Inca I mean EU4's Inca, not historical Inca. I put that in to make sure it wasn't confused. Apparently I failed miserably and caused the opposite! LOL!

I agree with your arguments against the "primitives can't build ships" feature, but despite people say it all the time on the forums, I feel that the issue they can't even learn to do so is where the real problem lies and is an even bigger issue.

 

[gall]

Still I suppose that they were stone-age too. I think to be e.g. bronze age you have to produce bronze (and not to gain trickle by raiding/trading)

Well in my city we don't produce bronze. If we need it, we buy it. I am guessing Vatican don't produce Bronze too. Are we stone-age hunter gathers? Sorry, couldn't resist.
Siberian tribes were rather primitive, but in XIX they used rifles and modern tools if they could acquire them. Climate is harsh (way worse than Norway) and agriculture was out question before XVIII-XIX. Low density of population prevent forming countries (not to mention army). Only advantage they have were Furs and other rare trade goods, but they need them for living not for filling coffers.. They should be unplayable. BTW. Development system could break balance in this area (but probably it won't, "arctic territories").

 

[zdlugasz]

Well in my city we don't produce bronze. If we need it, we buy it. I am guessing Vatican don't produce Bronze too. Are we stone-age hunter gathers? Sorry, couldn't resist.
...

In my city we do not produce neither bronze nor iron, but in my country there are people who know how to do it and who do it, as I gather you already know.

 

[Wizzington]

There are any number of equally unrealistic situations (Siberian natives building carracks,) already in the game, because it is a game.

This thread serves no purpose except to troll.