Fun, challenging nation to play

[unmerged(17791)]

I have a serious problem regarding this topic; all the nations I've tried are challenging (as in, I sit there perplexed because I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing objective-wise), thus the 'fun' just isn't there. Every game I play, is like watching the same movie over and over. I build some factories, I try to keep the people happy, I manage production, POPs, trade, growth, etc... I guess I'm pretty competent & love micromanaging. Problem is... I just don't get the plot.

Nothing exciting ever happens. Maybe there's a big war at some point, but it's usually some dragged-out attrition thing, where a few provinces exchange hands. See in HoI, that game is RICH w/ plot. That game is pretty much "countdown to Fight Night!.. on HBO!" The whole world is up for grabs!

Meanwhile, you guys talk about satelliting the whole world playing as Haiti... and I really don't get it. Maybe I'm just not very imaginitive, and therefore really don't 'jive' with Victoria as much as I thought/wanted.

See, the difference is... Panzers. Granted there's 'tanks' in Vicky. But only with the dawn of the WWII era can you really 'have a go', the way I like to. Whatever, I guess I'm still new at Vicky. Maybe someday I'll learn to Satellite Russia in 1860, playing as Denmark.

Meanwhile I'm honestly having trouble getting excited about my capabilities. I look at the ledger, and all I think is, "gee, look at all those divisions and ships... you know what I could do with them, right? I could send them to another foreign country where we could bleed them dry from attrition, banging our head against the wall pointlessly as the enemy mobilizes, and the whole economy inevitably TANKS as we all exhaust ourselves." So, tough to get too excited. In HoI, I think "yeah... they're not going to know what hit 'em... heh-heh".

See, maybe certain experts have mastered the whole, "pwning the USA when playing as Colombia" thing, but in reality this era of warfare is best described in it's ultimate example: WWI. The most pointless, quagmire, bloody, economically draining war of all time.

In WWII they were actually 'doing' something. There was actually a possibility to 'win all', or 'lose all'. In WWI, it's just down to "let's sit here, bleed, and waste national resources". :wacko: And he who has the most blood 'wins', and gets a few provinces and some 'reparations'.

Pointless!

 

[unmerged(760)]

I have a serious problem regarding this topic; all the nations I've tried are challenging (as in, I sit there perplexed because I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing objective-wise)

some smart guy said limitations breed creativity. when there is no plot, write your own movie! for the attrition, assigning leaders does help.

 

[unmerged(86954)]

I prefer Vicky, because I like economics. For me, building the industries and crafting my dream societies is the plot. Revolutions satisfies all my statesman ambitions. It's immensively cool for me to be in control of a virtual nation, and with Revolutions it kind of feels that instead of microing sliders, navy bombers and IC I am leading the "broad lines" of a society. Then again, I enjoy statistic sciences and history. o

Victoria is that game for clerks.

 

[Dysken]

Try playing a middle power (Sweden, Spain, Holland, Belgium, Switzerland, Italian Minor, Portugal) with a Juche ideology (that means no imports at all) it's very hard.

 

[unmerged(17791)]

some smart guy said limitations breed creativity. when there is no plot, write your own movie! for the attrition, assigning leaders does help.

For some reason I'm timid when I play Victoria. I have this feeling that if I step out of line, everything is going to blow up in my face. I seem to always be walking such a fine line anyway, God help me if I actually have a real problem on my hands. I think my biggest problem is that I don't really know how to make a lot of (or even 'good') money/income in the game from my economy. It seems I just tread water, right into the 20th century.

 

[unmerged(760)]

I think my biggest problem is that I don't really know how to make a lot of (or even 'good') money/income in the game from my economy.

well.. this sounds like you have pointed at a path to follow yourself... have you already checked some of the economy-threads and the vicky-wiki?

 

[unmerged(46065)]

Jagdmaus - Well...IMO, if you have enough money to industrialize your doing fine , but have you read, for example, Rensslaers' Fire Warms the Northern Lands? He made quite the story out of his game

 

[Agenor]

I find the civilizing requirements for military score ridiculous. Even for 1.04, ten points are impossible for most uncivs to achieve, because all troops you build are native quality and count only 1/10th of the normal score - so a regular unit counts 0.1, a unit with artillery brigade 0.2, an irregular unit is 0.1x0.1=0.01. So you need 1000 irregular division to civilize, which is madness. Even as China one would struggle to do this.

Men-of-War also seem to count 0.1, because they are "native quality". So to civilize, you need 100 men-of-war, or 100 regular infantry, or about 55 divisions of cavalry with cuirassiers attached. Which nation, apart from Japan, can build these? (And building them is bloody costly and tedious - I gave up my Japan game using the "Dutch Letter" event when I realized just what it would cost and how long it would take - too much like tedious hard work.)

It also doesn't make sense that units using the same technology count ten times as much after the civilization event fires than before. It means military score bears no relation whatsoever to military might for an unciv with flintlock rifles - regardless of the technology gap, one civ unit is hardly going to be as effective as ten native units.

As a result, the only uncivs I ever play are Persia, China and Japan. China gets the military scorte pretty easily, since it starts out with several regular units, and the other two civilize via events.

 

[OHgamer]

I find the civilizing requirements for military score ridiculous. Even for 1.04, ten points are impossible for most uncivs to achieve, because all troops you build are native quality and count only 1/10th of the normal score - so a regular unit counts 0.1, a unit with artillery brigade 0.2, an irregular unit is 0.1x0.1=0.01. So you need 1000 irregular division to civilize, which is madness. Even as China one would struggle to do this.

Men-of-War also seem to count 0.1, because they are "native quality". So to civilize, you need 100 men-of-war, or 100 regular infantry, or about 55 divisions of cavalry with cuirassiers attached. Which nation, apart from Japan, can build these? (And building them is bloody costly and tedious - I gave up my Japan game using the "Dutch Letter" event when I realized just what it would cost and how long it would take - too much like tedious hard work.)

It also doesn't make sense that units using the same technology count ten times as much after the civilization event fires than before. It means military score bears no relation whatsoever to military might for an unciv with flintlock rifles - regardless of the technology gap, one civ unit is hardly going to be as effective as ten native units.

As a result, the only uncivs I ever play are Persia, China and Japan. China gets the military scorte pretty easily, since it starts out with several regular units, and the other two civilize via events.

One could fairly easily, if wanted, add the new VIP:R system for uncivs getting extra RP growth and having different requirements for civilizing, based on techs, to a non-Revolutions Victoria game, or even a Revolutions game without VIP. The files are self-contained and the only changes that would be needed would be to remove one of the triggers to the actual civilizing events (which refer to an invention we added) and delete some of the RP boosts for countries U20-U99 which are not recognized nation in pre-Revolutions versions of Victoria.

VIP has no problem with players cherry-picking elements of the mod for their own use, and in this case with civilizing, the elements are self-contained files easily tweaked and added.

 

[Agenor]

One could fairly easily, if wanted, add the new VIP:R system for uncivs getting extra RP growth and having different requirements for civilizing, based on techs, to a non-Revolutions Victoria game, or even a Revolutions game without VIP.

I really like the civilizing requirements for VIP:R, OHgamer. They sound much more realistic, especially as Revolutions raises the military score you need to 25 - 250 units of native infantry! I've recently ordered Revolutions on CD, despite my initial resolve not to get it for various reasons. I will install the VIP mod when I get it - I really liked playing it with Vicky 1.03.

 

[Eärendil]

Have VIP also made units cost less manpower for uncivs or is this for vanilla as well? I noticed that before I civilized Siam, I had a manpower of 5-10 or so, but after I got the civilize event, it dropped to -95. If this is a result of VIP, then I really like this feature.

 

[OHgamer]

Have VIP also made units cost less manpower for uncivs or is this for vanilla as well? I noticed that before I civilized Siam, I had a manpower of 5-10 or so, but after I got the civilize event, it dropped to -95. If this is a result of VIP, then I really like this feature.

In VIP manpower for irregular units is 1 instead of 10, since the irregulars are so crappy to begin with compared to regular infantry.

Now, I'm not sure why if you have an army of irregular units they should cause a massive manpower shortage on civilizing, unless the game engine is now counting these irregulars as regular units, which it shouldn't be IMHO. if that is the case, then there might be an engine bug here that is not noticable in base Victoria since irregulars and regular units require the same manpower.

 

[unmerged(76802)]

The Confederacy. It's like a chibi-USA with a drawl and a cooler flag. Also: grits.

E: Make sure you get CSABadass' mod, too! The only thing better would be a mod that gives the rebels AK-47s.

 

[unmerged(86954)]

The Confederacy. It's like a chibi...

I never believed I'd see "chibi" used on this board.

 

[unmerged(76802)]

I never believed I'd see "chibi" used on this board.

You want I should draw it instead?

 

[RELee]

I want you should draw a chibi rebel, complete with flag!

Please.

 

[unmerged(86954)]

You want I should draw it instead?

Why not, pictures are more exciting.

 

[unmerged(76802)]

 

[unmerged(86954)]

Brilliant. :rofl:

 

[Eärendil]

In VIP manpower for irregular units is 1 instead of 10, since the irregulars are so crappy to begin with compared to regular infantry.

Now, I'm not sure why if you have an army of irregular units they should cause a massive manpower shortage on civilizing, unless the game engine is now counting these irregulars as regular units, which it shouldn't be IMHO. if that is the case, then there might be an engine bug here that is not noticable in base Victoria since irregulars and regular units require the same manpower.

None of my units were irregulars. I had one cavalry and one infantry regular unit (not natives), which I got through an event, and the rest were about 20-25 native cavalry+hussar units.