FTM 3.04: Fall of Nat China (1936 scenario)

[jmschaub]

I think I've encountered a first for this particular topic. I'm playing as USSR so unfortunately I don't see the details. But here's what I observed. Upon DOW of Japan vs China the Nat Chi landed troops @ that little pennisula that dangles below Manchuko. This simple action was enough to stall the invasion of China. It's now 1939 and the line has barely moved. The Japanese did retake the pennisula but that's it. This proves that if the chinese are allowed to dig in it does affect things. So perhaps a simple adjustment could "cure" our problem. Allow the Chinese Civil War to happen, as in HOI2, this will allow troops to dig in. When war breaks out with Japan the Civil War is put at peace. If / when the war is over for Japan then they should resume the civil war.

 

[Danmark Rising]

A redrawing of some of the borders for the Chinese warlords so that Nationalist China has a border with Manchuria also helps.

 

[Cpack]

I also like a harder to beat China and I tried a lot to make China harder to conquer, but then, another problem comes up.
Japan doesn't really go for Malaysia, Indonesia and Philippines if they haven't finished China.....so that's at least my observation

 

[TheBromgrev]

What is the CMP?

Community Map Project. There's a sticky in the modding forum for it, and I have a link to it at the bottom of my signature. The CMP is the PI-sanctioned effort to redo the map so it looks better and is more accurate, as long as balance isn't changed.

 

[Darion]

just playing my first FTM game as USA and I'm ready for a war in the pacific, unfortunately Japan is stuck in Northern china and hasnt made ground since 1939. Its Oct 1941 now. After taking out communist china in 1940 they then lost manchuko or whatever its called to the far north of china to Nat China and Japan has spent nearly 2 years trying to get it back. I assume any landing attempt was repulsed back in '38 or '39 and sealed japans fate. Japan has Indochina from Vichy since 1940 and Siam is allied but they still do nothing. This is very depressing as war with japan if it ever comes will be a cake walk.

I came on the forums expecting to find similar complaints about poor Japan AI against China but find its the other way round so I think 'ill start another game and pray Japan does better. I want to see Japan launch invasions all over Asia and even Australia and be a real threat. Something for the UK to worry about in india and USA to really get their teeth into once war begins. Japan should be hours from the philippines coast line by the time war is declared on the US and ready to invade. China is certainly not a cake walk in my very limited experience and judging from comments here the outcomes can be vary wildly which I think is a good thing. still I havent got 50+ games under my belt so ignore me of course

 

[unmerged(386031)]

in all my games in the 1936 scenario, china falls in a bit more than 1 year, a total push over. Is there anything we can do to balance that a bit? how is it as allies we cannot help china?
how could we simulate the massive military aid sent by the allies?
could we create a burma corridor bonus, as long as japan does not hold burma that gives a big production bonus to china?
a few events for massive militia help at the beginning of the war?

I do not definitely agree with you as it is a rather random event. Sometimes Japan wins, sometimes NC wins. In my last game with GB, Japan conquered all of China by 1939. Before that, when I was US, China was invading Manchukuo. But I am not sure whether NC would continue to invade Japan as she often lacked the means(navy) and possibly AI behaviour.

 

[pnt]

In a recent 1938 game I played as the US, Japan was rapidly kicked out of China on all fronts, until it managed to slow down the advance in the very north (holding only the port in Shanxi). Still, three years later, in late 1941, they DOW:ed the US. But since they had practically no army left, all they could do was to patrol the seas.

In a current 1936 game as Germany (it was easier to see what Japan was doing being in the Axis), they almost managed to conquer China when Shanxi fell. An sea invasion was, however, performed earlier in Shanghai. The Chinese redirected forces fro Shanxi and almost beat back the invasion, but then Shanxi fell, followed by Com China, after which the Japanese fanned out.

It seems to me that these two examples illustrate that fundamentally China is already too strong for the force that Japan deploys, but the Japanese can succeed depending on various (semi-)random events. The nice thing is that in FTM Japan actually seems to care about its strategic goals.

This leads me to believe that the problem is not in the balance. At least the 1936 scenario is quite balanced. The problem is that the balance is not a stable one, and very easily tips into the favor of one of the parties.

A nice addition to help with this (and other event triggered wars) would be to add an "anticipation" period, meaning that the AI will decide on pursuing such an event, it would deploy its forces for attack. This could be achieved by adding a "war_trigger" flag to political decisions. One could also refine the system of war goals by, for instance, adding priorities and weights. This would create a less random attack strategy, and Japan would have to deploy its forces accordingly.

On the defense, one could, as has been suggested earlier, rework the surrender of Shanxi and Com China, and perhaps introduce a "bitter peace" type of event. However, one could also use a more refined war goal system to emulate the historic situation. Upon achieving its high-priority goals, each side could go into a defensive mode, which was essentially what happened historically. I fact, there was very little actual fighting in China after the initial invasion and the final desperate offensive in 1944. This is very difficult to recreate if both sides are doing whatever they can to destroy their opponent, even if one removes some of he randomness of how they go about doing it.