FTM 3.04: Fall of Nat China (1936 scenario)

[Elryck]

me too, Japan crushes China soon because:
1. Japan sends all his army and almost completely abandoned the archipelago exempt HQ.
2. Japan too can help in Manchuria who also sends his army and abandoned its borders with the USSR.
3. The organization of very low Chinese divisions. Should be an event for the organization back when the country is 50% of being defeated by example ..
4. Guanxi clique that does absolutely nothing.

 

[VetMax]

That's hardly historical either

Anyway, JAP does beat CHI too easily too often, but it's not always and it just so happened CHI was holding out the the game I was looking at as this thread appeared, so I thought I would share a pic.

You should add industry redeployment event or smth.
Quick death of China is a real problem because it makes axis threat to skyrocket. I dont mind if china dies in 1942. But thx to it's quick defeat countries are drifting too early and too fast

 

[TheBromgrev]

MAKE YUNNAN PART OF CHINA TO CREATE SUPPLY WITH GB.

I've already done this, as for some odd reason Yunnan controls not only most of the actual Yunnan province, but western Sichuan as well. For the CMP I changed that so Yunnan controls all of Yunnan, and the RoC controls all of Sichuan, which provides the RoC with a border to Tibet and the UK. This will make it into patch 3.06 or 3.07, depending on what the state of the CMP is overall by the time Paradox is ready to release those patches. As of right now, the planned ETA for 3.06 is sometime in September or early October, as Paradox catalogs anything still broken in the soon to be released 3.05. If the CMP isn't balanced or still needs tweaking by the time Paradox wants to release 3.06, then the CMP won't make it in until a later patch.

 

[VetMax]

Ok that is not the most important thing but may be you can add an actual war between Japan and Vichy France? That will suck several Jap divisions for a while in the middle of the war in china

 

[unmerged(161566)]

The chinese production AI could probably use a tweak as well. In my last game (FTM, US Player) China got steam rolled. I loaded as China when I realized that they were in trouble and looked at what they were up to. Out of transports, and at the top of their production queue, Convoy Escorts... Not exactly the best thing to be churning out when your locked into a Land War in Asia vs Japan and don't have a Navy (or convoys for that matter...). Escorts were choking off Infantry/Militia builds which seemed badly needed...

 

[VetMax]

That was already tweaked (see the latest lua files). It doesnt really help. It is only encreases initial chineese strength what is not neccessary. Chineese strength should be supported later

 

[unmerged(161566)]

Just to clarify, I check on the Chineese AFTER I realized that they were in a world of hurt, and deeply involved in the war with Japan. Not in peacetime 36/37, or immediately after the DOW, it was late 37/early 38 and things were going badly on the ground...

 

[VetMax]

# Response to Japan - Vichy France Refuses
country_event = {

	id = 1804
	
	is_triggered_only = yes
	
	title = "EVTNAME1804"
	desc = "EVTDESC1804"
	picture = "indochina_demand"
	
	option = {
	name = "OK"
		war = {
			target = VIC 
			ai_chance = { factor = 100 }
			attacker_goal = { casus_belli = aquire_territory  region=french_indochine_region }
		}
	}

	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA1804"			# Curses
		dissent = 3
	}
}

Also it is possible to tweak Vichy lua to make it sell supplies to china. That was the actual cause

 

[Depp]

I think a big issue is that Communist China falls in just a few months, opening up a front to the interior of china as well, which did not happen historically. So both Chinas might need boosting...

 

[VetMax]

Yes the communist china is reaaly sucks. May be it should use undeground extensively or smth.
After 30% of chineese territory is conquered Jap should have serious partisan problems but it has not.
And after conquering Japs have almost unlimited manpower

 

[208]

For the CMP I changed that so Yunnan controls all of Yunnan

What is the CMP?

 

[21oliver]

Ive played about 50 games (yes i have no life and have played round the clock since ftm came out and i started modding!) in the past few weeks, and i dont believe ive seen China last more then 3 years but once. Japan Always conquers both (Comm and Nat) which is why i dont bother with any aid, its a waste i assume...

 

[Herbinator]

I've played three 1936 "test" games as Nat China. It wasn't until the third that I had to swallow my pride and "call to Arms" my allies. This resulted in ... survival and even the conquest of Manchuquo. Conquest of Korea is particularly challenging wrt supplies. It's tricky. Japan CAN field a strong, supplied army and seemingly stand-me-off at will in the narrow peninsula.

Human against AI is challenging. If an AI Nat China doesn't do a timely Call to Arms then I can't see how it could possibly survive.

Comment about AI Japan: given its mighty fleet it doesn't blockade my ports, sink very much shipping (it does sink all my convoys early on if I leave them running) after an initial flurry, or destroy my teeny, tiny fleet in port. AI Japan does re-enforce endangered ports ... nice AI touch. And it tried the Beiging naval invasion gambit, too, but nothing since.

 

[Enigma1]

It is the end of 1942 in my current game and China is still holding out against the Japs - they will not last much longer, but it is nearly 1943.

 

[foxboy73]

what does "in all my games" mean? i have seen several games were japan gets pushed out of china or needs years to accomplish anything. don't forget that as long as japan is engaged in china they leave the US alone.
btw, i think china already gets a bonus when they loose enough VP provinces.

I just played a game as the US and Japan still Declared War on me in November 41' even though they were at war with Nationalist China and Guangxi Clique. If it wasn't because of that i wouldn't have beat them in 6 months

 

[T.j. Arnold]

Guy has a right to report issues. Japan steamrolling Nat China has actually been problem since before FTM and is a known issue.

Yes. Also, the other way around is a KNOWN issue. In otherwords, it's 50/50. Japan has the ability to steamroll 1523 times in a row, as well as vice-versa.
It's random.

 

[VetMax]

It is not random. Japan wins in 2 years 90%+ of time

 

[ElVince]

yes definitely not random. I had only one game so far where china resisted for longer than two years.

 

[VetMax]

I think humanitarians can not differ 90/1 and 50/50

 

[unmerged(88697)]

Historically, the Chinese fought tooth and nail, throwing in their best divisions into the battles of Shanghai, and Wuhan, to exhaust Japanese manpower. The Battle of Wuhan, especially, utterly exhausted the Japanese. While the Chinese were able to absorb the 225,000 casualties they suffered, the Japanese did not effectively recover from the 160,000 or so casualties until 1944.

Yes, and the same thing happens when playing MP as Japan with a human N.China player. Japan ran out of manpower by mid-'38 and was forced to take a defensive line around Peking while launching a secondary front from French Indochina north into Guangxi Clique.

As for the AI Japan vs AI China, it's more a roll of the dice. In this case the AI seems to favor the agressor.