FTL Discussion Thread

[Nerz]

You didn't answered any of my concerns,

Wich one? Delete warp and humilate wormholes and jumpdrive or dele all exept hyperdrive?

you didn't answer any of well-known problems.

Wich one? Existing something exept hyperdrive? Developers, who officialy support hypeline fanatics?

You show little knowledge in military thinking ("will able to defend all their systems")

OH YES! In A GOD DAMN SPACE we are not should be able to defend ALL our systems! It's not strategicaly!

and game design ability ("Radar changes, "terrain" and hyperline generation will be in all FTL modes").

Rly. It's isn't even funny already. Why i must to lose this feactures? Because hyperline fantics don't wat us have this features? Damm this a "good" "argument", im defeated!

I don't think you really know what your opponents position is.

I know your possition. It sounds like "WE WANT TO DELETE ALL FTL's, BACUSE WE HATE THEM!" or "I WANT ALL PLAY WITH MY STRATEGY AND WW1 IN SPACE!"

If I were to reach consensus with 'no for FTL removal' faction (why should I? I'm not the one who make decisions, neither they are), I see much stronger debaters than you, in this thread alone.

Well after your post i see only one way to reach concensus with "hyperdrive fanatics faction".
BAN AND GENOSIDE.
You has no arguments. It's fact. Ground "strategy" IN SPACE-it isn't argumet, its question of tastes.
You trying ty use your mythical numbers and doomstacks as "argument".
You shoot on site any variant with no deleting of FTL's even if this variant left you play in your nauseating FTL "rework"
But you still think your debates stronger than my and you trying to reach concencus.
Supreme logic.
*facepalm*

 

[Nerz]

An idea for moders to emulate warp in 2.0+ , maybe dumb, and maybe impossible but there it is :

- If modding allow adding/removing hyperlane during the game :
- The mod remove all lanes
- It create a temporary lanes on the fly when you want to move to another system in range of your current "modded warp tech" , on mouse hovering a valid destination system for exemple
- If you click on the destination system, this ad hoc lane stays there until the jump is done, then the mod removes it.
- If you don't click and mouse exit the system, the mode remove the temporary lane.
- Modding the AI to make it able to also do the same may be tricky
- The mod would also need a lot more shenaningan to make this version be balanced with the new elements coming in 2.0+ but this is not my point.

I'm not sure, but it's "deep code", not notepad. But maybe devs wont deleting warp, wormholes and old jumpdrives mechanics and we will able to bring them back with one line of code. Not like "FTL-from-any-point-of-system" feature.

 

[Tavior]

I'm not sure, but it's "deep code", not notepad. But maybe devs wont deleting warp, wormholes and old jumpdrives mechanics and we will able to bring them back with one line of code. Not like "FTL-from-any-point-of-system" feature.

It already has been confirmed by Wiz himself that actual code for warp/wormhole has been "basically" removed from Stellaris' current internal 2.0 Cerryh build.

I seriously doubt that would change otherwise they would have said something and the confirmation was way back in Nov 2017 in Dev Diary #92.

 

[Rostigpepe]

Let's not kid ourselves by saying the changes Wiz announced aren't among the better options for FTL in the game, but it is still upsetting that we're losing the cool flavor of being an empire based around the wormhole, or around the warp drive. To that end, I would like to make a suggestion to compensate for their loss: adding the ability to choose an FTL aesthetic. Basically all three FTL systems would work exactly the same as hyperlanes, except you would see the animation for charging warp drives or preparing a wormhole (without the need for a station in this iteration). It's simple and would give us a way to say we "kind of" still have warp and wormholes.

I completely agree with you that this change is for the better and i too would like to be able to have some customizability when it comes to how the actual FTL looks. Even though that wouldn't be a major change that would affect the game in any way it'd still be appreciated to be able to do these things without modding the game.

People hate change, that is why. I have seen plenty of games that make drastic changes, people lose their shit, then play anyway realizing its better. The devs should not bow to internet trolls. It is their game, and I have confidence that they will pull through.

I completely agree with this. Have seen way too many developers scared of changing their own game because of the fear of losing players due to them being unable to deal with any change whatsoever. If developers simply make the changes they want with some consideration of the communities recommendations games would become much better and a much higher pace. This is what i like with 2.0 so far, the fact that paradox dares to make the changes that they want but at the same time implementing mechanics that the community have wanted, makes me believe that stellaris will become much better than it already is.

 

[Peko?]

Well after your post i see only one way to reach concensus with "hyperdrive fanatics faction".

What could the consensus be between the standpoints "this is good" and "this is bad"? To keep all three current FTL types would completely undermine what the devs are trying to do and to remove them is unacceptable to the - to use your phrase - "three FTL fanatics". To keep them as two different game modes is unfeasible for PDX due to effectively doubling the development cost of anything that interacts with movement, which is, in one way or another, most of the systems in the game. (I would like that but I don't see it happening)
I see no middle ground to compromise and definitely no way to reach a consensus. I think that at this point the only option that remains is to agree to disagree.

Edit: Also, calm down a bit, calling for the genocide of people who disagree with you is, even if it's not serious, uncalled for.

 

[Cat_Fuzz]

What could the consensus be between the standpoints "this is good" and "this is bad"?

We already have it, it's called 1.9 which is the "this is alright" standpoint.

EDIT: Come now, it was a joke

 

[Almond_Brown]

Why Doom?

It does not have "HyperLane Only" travel in game... perhaps...

 

[Kleanthes]

Just curious: Am I the only one who thinks it would be much nicer if the the hyperlanes were not visible right from the start - only the ones going from your own star system? As soon as your ships reach new systems, the hyperlanes that lead away from that system would become visible, etc.

And personally, I don't mind Paradox tinkering around with the game. I have trust that there are people who invested a lot of time in the game and who will probably find better solutions. I like the idea of multiple FTL methods, but if there are good arguments against them, hyperlanes are ok - reminds me of Ascendancy ;-)

 

[PK_AZ]

Wich one? Delete warp and humilate wormholes and jumpdrive or dele all exept hyperdrive?

(re)Taking niche that was reserved for gateways, for example.

Wich one? Existing something exept hyperdrive? Developers, who officialy support hypeline fanatics?

To not search too long: FTL inhibitors.

OH YES! In A GOD DAMN SPACE we are not should be able to defend ALL our systems! It's not strategicaly!

There's old saying that 'If you want to protect everything, you will protect nothing'.

Rly. It's isn't even funny already. Why i must to lose this feactures? Because hyperline fantics don't wat us have this features? Damm this a "good" "argument", im defeated!

Space terrain makes sense when you cannot easily surpass it, i.e. when your freedom of movement is small (NOT when there are only hyperlanes. Hyperlanes with some parameters greatly reduce freedom of movement, but they are hardly the only way to do it). Sensor changes were designed as part of 'hyperlane-only'. They are just implementation of distance-based recon, with distance based on hyperlanes, not euclidessian. If you want to have two different FTLs, one euclidessian and one infrastructure-based, then whats the logic behind hyperlane-based recon? Finally, hyperlane generation for games without hyperlanes? Only to make hyperlane-based recon possible, I guess.

I know your possition. It sounds like "WE WANT TO DELETE ALL FTL's, BACUSE WE HATE THEM!" or "I WANT ALL PLAY WITH MY STRATEGY AND WW1 IN SPACE!"

After reading your post I thought that you believe that you believe your opponents are some kind of fanatical bunch of fanatics that want to remove warp and wormholes out of spite. Thank you for making it clear.

You trying ty use your mythical numbers and doomstacks as "argument".

Where exactly am I trying to use 'my mythical numbers' or doomstacks?

You has no arguments. It's fact. Ground "strategy" IN SPACE-it isn't argumet, its question of tastes.

My arguments are reserved for proposals that are not fancy way to say 'the compromise between keeping all FTLs and removing two FTLs is to keep all FTLs'.

You shoot on site any variant with no deleting of FTL's even if this variant left you play in your nauseating FTL "rework"

...for only two times more workhours from Paradox site, which means two times more money for the same amount of new content. Unless you are suggesting that Paradox should keep warp and hyperlanes, but cease any support for them. In that case I believe its not me you should seek consensus with, but other members of 'three FTLs' faction.

But you still think your debates stronger than my and you trying to reach concencus.

DEBATERS, not DEBATES. Debater is a person who take part in debate. I am not trying to reach consensus with any of my opponents, for the simple reason I already stated:

why should I? I'm not the one who make decisions, neither they are

 

[Argantorix]

I have a question about Cherryh: will warp be completely removed from the game? As in: will the non-players that previously warp such as the Tiyanki, Nomads and Prethoryn use hyperdrives, too?

 

[Mandemon]

I have a question about Cherryh: will warp be completely removed from the game? As in: will the non-players that previously warp such as the Tiyanki, Nomads and Prethoryn use hyperdrives, too?

Pretty sure every faction is going to be using Hyperlanes. Nomands will propably also use Hyperdrive, but Tyanki might be exception. Then again, might be just easier (and less resource hog) to just force all moving units to use hyperlanes.

 

[Cethanis]

We already have it, it's called 1.9 which is the "this is alright" standpoint.

Lucky for Humanity here aren't to many thinking like you. Otherwise we would still live in caves and eating raw meat, because "it's alright".

 

[Argantorix]

Pretty sure every faction is going to be using Hyperlanes. Nomands will propably also use Hyperdrive, but Tyanki might be exception. Then again, might be just easier (and less resource hog) to just force all moving units to use hyperlanes.

That raises the question how the Nomads and the Prethoryn are supposed to travel intergalactic distances if there's no hyperlanes connecting galaxies...

Its a pitty though. It would definitely spice things up if the Prethoryn weren't restricted in Cherryh and could just bypass the potential chokepoints of hyperlane exits.

 

[Mercury Seven]

I have a question about Cherryh: will warp be completely removed from the game? As in: will the non-players that previously warp such as the Tiyanki, Nomads and Prethoryn use hyperdrives, too?

From the DD thread:

They will likely use Hyperlanes, at least the crises will for sure to do so, so you can use chokepoints against them as well.

Wraith is something where I was thinking it might be good to have an exception to the usualHyperlane restriction, yes. Nothing on that is final though.

 

[Riftwalker]

Lucky for Humanity here aren't to many thinking like you. Otherwise we would still live in caves and eating raw meat, because "it's alright".

i think there way be a slight difference between calling eating raw meat and an entertainment product 'alright'.

i'm making a funny, reading the quoted made me laugh.

 

[Digrus]

Nobody is forcing the dissidents to get the 2.0 patch, or downloading mods that bring back the old 3way system.
"Yeah, but I can't get the achievements like this!"
So you wanna play in a way that makes the current changes useless (stations, fortresses, new FTL method, doomstack solving) and still be awarded for it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big wormhole fan, but the changes are reasonable:
-TOO MUCH DOOMSTACK, PARADOX DO SOMETHING!!!
-Ok, let's all use a FTL travel that is slower and more predictable than Warp and Wormhole, so you can't defend yourself with just 1 big fleet.
-NOOO! I WANNA SEND MY FLEET EVERYWHERE WITH JUST ONE JUMP, THIS IS TOO SLOW!
-B-But this is the only reasonable way to implement fortresses in the game.
-YEAH, BUT I WANNA BE ABLE TO AVOID THEM! YOU CAN'T APPLY EARTH LOGIC TO SPACE!
-Actually, it would make sense to build forts and stations in a hyperlane-based universe. It would be pointless in a 200000000000 stars galaxy, like ours, but with only 1000 systems, it would be strange not to have a defense station in every choke point.
-SO FIND A WAY TO MAKE THEM WORK AGAINST WARP E WORMHOLE TOO!
-Do you realize the work and efford needed to do something like that? If the defense system reacted differently to the various FTL technologies, there will be no balance between the 3, and we'll have again a top dog (like wormholes before 2.0). This will also prevent the game from lagging.
-I'M KILLING MY CHILDREN IF YOU REMOVE THEM!
-We are not playing Ck2...

 

[Lossmar]

Ahhh the good Paradox lapdogs and their atrocious sarcasm..
Features you paid for got removed - nothing will change that fact, especially not such a mediocre sarcasm and cringeworthy """""humor"""""".

 

[Digrus]

Ahhh the good Paradox lapdogs and their atrocious sarcasm..
Features you paid for got removed - nothing will change that fact, especially not such a mediocre sarcasm and cringeworthy """""humor"""""".

 

[Riftwalker]

Ahhh the good Paradox lapdogs and their atrocious sarcasm..
Features you paid for got removed - nothing will change that fact, especially not such a mediocre sarcasm and cringeworthy """""humor"""""".

hmm, they're still there in 1.9 weird.

Also is anyone who is fine with paradox's changes a lapdog? I mean, it couldn't possibly be that I actually enjoy the changes could it?

I'm beyond that, I believe the devs have the right to make a game that they want. it was obvious in the streams leading up to it that the Lead programmer and Lead Developer BOTH enjoyed playing hyperlane only. It seems to me at the very least, they would have ideas on how to improve the game along these lines, that simply wouldn't be a well designed game if they left in warp and wormhole. Ideas that they would actually enjoy making and playing.

 

[Merari]

Logged in after a month or two and I see they're still planning to push the changes to FTL.

I want my money back. This is fraud. I did not pay for a game to have features that were a reason I bought the game in the first place removed.

I bought a game, I bought DLC and now I can never play it again because a core reason I bought it will be removed and I will be left with a game impossible for me to enjoy. I would never have bought a hyperlane space game.