FTL Discussion Thread

[omega4]

Thank you! I knew it, german always have words for those kind of thing

I've always been partial to "schadenfreude" myself.

 

[Melfice_Cyrum]

People keep saying there are solutions that the dev team is somehow ignoring.

But every solution either adds needlessly complicated mechanics or makes one method of travel strictly worse than every other.

So what exactly could be done to make warp not suck while not adding some kind of dumb mechanic like a fuel limit?

How do you make Wormhole not OP as hell without the use of FTL Inhibitors?

I see people going "I don't want another hyperlane game!"

But nobody seems to be able to give a non-complicated, non mechanic adding method to fix Warp and Wormholes.

 

[Fefnir]

I came here just to express again my disappointment.

As more and more of my friends are discovering Stellaris, I love to see how they customize their own species, and learn about the game. The only thing I keep hiding from them is the imminent rework of FTL.

And myself, as I gladly read the weekly Dev Diaries, I can't stop myself from thinking: "wow, the game will look so good with this changes! It's a shame they are removing the FTL options...". Should I keep with 1.9.x?

And what bothers me the most is that currently there aren't any new mechanics announced forcibly requiring this rework. Just seems pointless.

Last, I just despise the so called "space borders", "fortifications", "space geography".
I don't understand why the developers are so centered around those concepts to be the core mechanics of the game, a game about space.

Just venting out. Let's see what happens.

 

[SRM]

I'm eagerly looking forward to the new changes myself. I'm sure mods reverting the less well received aspects will be out within days, but everything I've seen in the dev diaries so far looks like a positive change to me.

 

[Obak]

People keep saying there are solutions that the dev team is somehow ignoring.

But every solution either adds needlessly complicated mechanics or makes one method of travel strictly worse than every other.

So what exactly could be done to make warp not suck while not adding some kind of dumb mechanic like a fuel limit?

How do you make Wormhole not OP as hell without the use of FTL Inhibitors?

I see people going "I don't want another hyperlane game!"

But nobody seems to be able to give a non-complicated, non mechanic adding method to fix Warp and Wormholes.

Talk about pushing the envelope, first it was talk of “no solution”,, when solutions where presented they are too complicated, my bet is the next complaint will be that the simple solution has the wrong color.

 

[Crenickator]

People keep saying there are solutions that the dev team is somehow ignoring.

But every solution either adds needlessly complicated mechanics or makes one method of travel strictly worse than every other.

So what exactly could be done to make warp not suck while not adding some kind of dumb mechanic like a fuel limit?

How do you make Wormhole not OP as hell without the use of FTL Inhibitors?

I see people going "I don't want another hyperlane game!"

But nobody seems to be able to give a non-complicated, non mechanic adding method to fix Warp and Wormholes.

We keep saying that because the dev team didn't actually seem to attempt to do any balancing. They took away Hyperspace jumps from anywhere in the system and gave warp ridiculous cooldowns. Most of the discussions seemed hinged around FTL inhibitors, but A) Those are only really necessary if you're trying to wall off borders, and B) the UI for dangerous systems can't be that difficult to communicate bad stars to the player. It looks so much like throwing the baby out with the bathwater to gut the FTL system.

Map generation that relies more on clusters of stars, and at such sizes that the levels of FTL drives, bring progressively larger areas of the galaxy you can explore. No new mechanics, but using existing mechanics in a more natural and logical way.

Here's an idea for Wormholes. Make generating a wormhole take a lot longer unless you have a wormhole generator already in the system. Great for jetting around your carefully planned network. Crap for the start of a big offensive against the enemies, or expanding soon and rapidly.

Another oddity that hampers people is getting cut off by borders. How exactly does one close a border in space, anyway? It's more of a gentleman's agreement, yes? So just make it so you can travel to any system you want, regardless of who owns it, and let diplomatic penalties and casus bellis result for the empires who don't appreciate it.

There's lots of things to try that aren't complicated, and utilize existing mechanics.

 

[Master Kane]

There's lots of things to try that aren't complicated, and utilize existing mechanics.

This is so true

And the argument about 'complicated', that's most of the time an argument to hide behind without really saying anything, not sure if this is the case here tho...

Imho not complicated is: reduce the weapons back to 2 weapon types and give them both the same range and damage without any bonuses.
Yes, that's balanced!
But solutions like these is exactly something i don't want!

The 3 FTL with some fine tuning could/should be more of a rock, paper, scissors situation.


Besides of that, personally i think every empire should start with some very very very slow version of warp/impulse/give it a name drive which you already can travel between systems. Then on top of that you have your chosen FTL.
Also you should be able to unlock/research a second FTL (if you're really lucky all three FTL). But to balance it a bit out, maybe your chosen FTL should have some bonus and you're researched FTL some penalty (or something like that)
To supplement this idea maybe hyperlanes should not be connected to every star system, but more like a highway.


Well.., lots of ideas.., probably there are lots of better ideas already here on the forums.
tldr: there are lots of solutions that can make our game better, please don't make it worse!

 

[Rabid]

I've been playing hyperspace only since my 2nd ever game of Stellaris (open form movement makes expansion too painless for me to find it enjoyable; I like it when a hyperlane I want to use is blocked by a scary enemy as it poses a fun problem to have to work around) so I obviously welcome the changes with open arms. The game will now be balanced and designed from the ground up with the specific interactions of hyperlanes in mind rather than having to cater to 3 totally different systems at the same time.

Hopefully the accompanying changes to fleet combat will be sufficient to make the game truly fresh again.

 

[xXAgeOfPeopleXx]

So I have spent a bit of time looking at the rather vent orientated thread (Cherl killing Stellaris XD) concerning FTL and I want to discuss my perceived pros and cons to what is going on and why I agree with the problems and disagree with the solution.

Firstly let's accept the core reasons that Warp and Wormhole are being removed by the developers:

They put the attackers at too great of an advantage. Even if both sides have Wormholes it becomes quite hard to defend against an attack that can strike anywhere and force the defenders to always be reacting.

I feel that this is a problem that can be remedied easier that removing Warp and Wormholes We already have the FTL Inhibitor but the key problem with these is that you'd need to build them into every single system and ensure that they survive long enough for your fleets to engage the enemy. I feel that this could be solved by having an Advanced version of the FTL inhibitor with an area pf control that breaks the warp-field/reroutes the wormhole and pulls them out at the location of the emitter, this means that you can defend against warp/wormhole empires and if they aren't careful with sensors and scanning catch them off guard and conduct some cleaver ambushes.

Secondly there is no reason to pick hyperlanes because it limits you strategically. Honestly the advantages gained by hyperlanes are simply not worth it when you are fighting against empires with Warp or Wormhole travel.

I feel that this is mainly caused by the lack of agency you have when using hyperlanes. You are completely at the mercy of the rng gods and cannot build your own routes. Even if it's a midgame tech it will allow for a more robust hyperlane network that rewards strategic thinking do I build more networks that allow me to get to this position faster at the risk of opening up choke points? This means you have incentive to use hyperlanes, they're a superior defensive weapon that allows for response on your terms and is more suited to a defensive player.

These are the two issues I feel really make warp/wormhole too strong and option.

On the inverse a hyperlane only game would benefit non strategic thinking and render strategy to camp and counter-attack. Securing choke points as soon as possible and building Fort doom ASAP.

This is a lazy strategy and reduces the possibility of raiding. It reinforces the toxic doom stack meta instead of fighting it. One of the best strategies I've discovered is to have small corvette fleets darting around raiding small undefended systems destroying infrastructure and avoiding confrontation. It's forced my opponents to start to build defensive outposts in strategic systems. Exactly what you should have to do. By crippling their industries and using hit and run tactics against their Space Ports I destroyed their ability to reinforce while they started breaking off smaller forces to handle my raiders. Eventually I gained the upper hand and decisively beat half their fleet forcing them to a white peace. If it was hyperlane only I'd have to jump a spiral into their territory (different arms) and you can bet they'd of had their entire fleet there.

I have a few more points but these are the three I feel are the most important. Happy to discuss flaws in my logic/reasoning here. I do want to see the game improve and Hyperlane definitely was too weak but I feel that by limiting our strategic mobility the game will stagnate.

 

[Sinister2202]

In this post, you haven't accepted your core reasons that warp and wormhole are being removed. One may think hyperlanes limits players strategically only when they begin to compare it with other FTL types and THEIR capabilities. With other FTL types out of the picture, how can there be any other "better" FTL than hyperlanes? You just gotta play it differently and accept the challenges created for you by the hyperlanes in the galaxy, which would provide its own strategic options to the players.

Furthermore, being able to create an advanced FTL inhibitor to drag the enemy ship to a system you want them to be in is no different than having chokepoints, but without the benefit of new game design possibilities opened up and provided by the hyperlanes. Not only that, the terrains can now play a major part because you can't just jump over them anymore. That's another mechanic that allows for "strategic decision" such as - would it be wise to deploy your rapid response fleet in a nebula where your fleet can be slowed down? or, would it be wise to entrap and engage the shield-heavy enemy fleet with your armor-heavy fleet in a pulsar system?

I get your point that hyperlanes could result in non-important decision making, such as like you mentioned locking down chokepoints and camping big fleets... But to be honest I never had to make important decisions in my gameplays using wormholes and warps either. It was mostly chasing after enemy fleets and maneuvering which was quite tedious and annoying most of the time.
Also, the fact that ships will now HAVE to travel to specific places at the edge of a system to get to another specific system, maneuvering needlessly without a thought could be highly risky, especially when you've got a large enemy fleet in a nearby system. Not to mention the problem of responding to a threat in a far corner of your empire, should the deployment of your fleet across the galaxy is proved to be inefficient.

Believe it or not, and sooner or later when you gotta expand, choke points will be rendered ineffective especially with the changes to the border system. Raiding is still possible with hyperlanes. It'll be just as frustrating for defensive players with hyperlanes-only game as all-FTLs game. When you can't skip over couple systems and limited to traveling through routes just to respond to a raiding fleet, and when you've got an empire with MANY chokepoints to hold, it can be just as frustrating. With hyperlanes, enemy fleets can just as easily raid and retreat and travel to the other side WITHIN their borders and appear on the other side of your empire. It's not like your empire will have only 1 chokepoint to defend. Curse the RNG god!

Not to mention the fact they re-did the sensor mechanic. It will not be easy for you to predict or see the movements of enemy fleet and anticipate where they will raid next, and which defensive chokepoints to defend. Failure to respond in time could allow the raiding fleet to travel deep within your empire even without the other two FTL types. Then a defender has a choice of deploying their fleet to a nearby "crossroads" system to try to intercept and cut off the retreating raiders, instead of mindlessly right clicking on the enemy fleet and hope your wormhole or warp will do all the work for you.

And if a fleet wants to be careful, the player would have to maneuver the fleet AROUND the star base to avoid engagement, just to get to the arrow at the edge of the star system on the OTHER SIDE. With warp and wormhole, you wouldn't have to worry about things like that. It's just too damn easy with those two FTLs.

Making all your bordering systems as heavily fortified as possible in a hyperlane-only game is even costlier than maintaining military stations or FTL traps in certain strategic systems in an all-FTLs game. At least in current version of the game. Even with hyperlanes, empires have plenty of openings.

In a spiral galaxy map, bordering rival empires (located in a different arm of the galaxy) are often only accessed through one hyperlane or very few system to hop on when using other FTL types. In that case players would have to research better FTL tech to increase the range to be able to reach the opponent. With hyperlanes, you can reach them right from the start of the game. And if it is only one hyperlane leading to the other arm of the galaxy, then prepare for a bloody battle to break through. That's hardly being lazy.
Bless the RNG god for the other FTLs, if where you spawned happened to have a star or two in between the arm, and your FTL range allows you to reach the other arm on day ONE. That'd tremendously favor you or the empire on the other arm. But with hyperlanes-only, RNG god wouldn't have anything to do with that.

Because of this FTL change that's coming, I played hyperlanes-only game many times and it has its ups and downs, but overall I was satisfied with the gameplay as it was challenging. With the new upcoming border and ship sensor mechanic, it will only get better. And those two changes cannot coexist with the other FTLs, as the other FTL types would be too god-like with those changes applied.

Not having to be able to build your own hyperlane is because it's not something physical or something that can be built in the first place. But it may be possible to build some sort of generator on each ends of each systems to build a path. It seems to me that could be costly and inefficient. Not only that, it becomes obsolete/redundant once you have access to jump gates and earn the ability to build them yourself.

It is also much more realistic that wormholes remain as natural occurrences in the galaxy, as it boosts the immersion of exploration and the feeling of "the unknown". Although I can't say the same for warp travel, it is a mindless form of maneuver, while hyperlanes force players to adapt - whichever location their empire is in or is expanding towards. And gameplay-wise, I'd very much favor warp travel for its efficiency, however it is very boring.

 

[xXAgeOfPeopleXx]

These are actually fair points. I can't actively disagree with any of them because they are logical. I've played a few hyperlane only games to try and gain a better understanding and have found them a bit too limiting but as you said a lot of the solutions that will remedy this will be seen later on once 2.0 is released. I just hope that the changes work better.

I still wish there was an option to play 2.0 with Warp/Wormhole because I felt that all the changes would already fix most of these problems. Even if it was that only corvettes and destroyers could be warp capable and have them jump around as raiders that could bypass large forts.

I want it to be better but honestly I would like to see an increase in FTL options and content dealing with ships not a continual decrease which has been happening since release. Going down to just hyperdrive does solve problems plaguing the game since release but at the cost of lowering options. I supposed we'll see if it's worth it.

 

[Sinister2202]

A lot of people do feel that they are losing a lot, like you do, because the other two FTLs are leaving the game. In a way, combined with jump gates in strategic "crossroads" star system allows players to make important decisions, like where to build the jump gates for starters. And laying out the hyperlanes map allows one to think, "how can I allow my ships to travel faster and more efficiently?" "Where should I plop down these jump gates?" "How can I solve the problem of hyperlanes that are limiting me?"

Tbh, hyperlanes, borders, sensors etc gives the feeling of solidity that your empire is not just a blob that could be trespassed by jumping ships into some uninhabited and useless system, but something that you could take control and defend and consider which routes are the best to take...etc. Gives you a good solid identity of a star empire. Gives the opponents a feeling that an empire is fully utilized and inhabited.

And like I said, the developers had a lot of things in mind for Stellaris but could not do, due to the three FTL types. Limiting the game to hyperlanes, as they said, opens up a lot of design possibilities and solves a lot of the problems players complained about they were looking to resolve. So we should look forward to that.

If limiting it to hyperlanes only was a bad idea, they would've reverted their decisions. We haven't even played the cherryh version of the game yet, so it's not fair to them if we conclude that it is bad. It's Paradox after all, anything can happen. But I am definitely looking forward to their visions of the future for this game.

 

[Tale]

The FTL inhibitor you suggest is probably a pain in the butt to code and optimize. It also makes consideration of location in expansion meaningless for purposes of defense.

 

[xXAgeOfPeopleXx]

A lot of people do feel that they are losing a lot, like you do, because the other two FTLs are leaving the game. In a way, combined with jump gates in strategic "crossroads" star system allows players to make important decisions, like where to build the jump gates for starters. And laying out the hyperlanes map allows one to think, "how can I allow my ships to travel faster and more efficiently?" "Where should I plop down these jump gates?" "How can I solve the problem of hyperlanes that are limiting me?"

Tbh, hyperlanes, borders, sensors etc gives the feeling of solidity that your empire is not just a blob that could be trespassed by jumping ships into some uninhabited and useless system, but something that you could take control and defend and consider which routes are the best to take...etc. Gives you a good solid identity of a star empire. Gives the opponents a feeling that an empire is fully utilized and inhabited.

And like I said, the developers had a lot of things in mind for Stellaris but could not do, due to the three FTL types. Limiting the game to hyperlanes, as they said, opens up a lot of design possibilities and solves a lot of the problems players complained about they were looking to resolve. So we should look forward to that.

If limiting it to hyperlanes only was a bad idea, they would've reverted their decisions. We haven't even played the cherryh version of the game yet, so it's not fair to them if we conclude that it is bad. It's Paradox after all, anything can happen. But I am definitely looking forward to their visions of the future for this game.

100% Agree, I keep forgetting that if they find better solutions they would and if more depth can come for it I'm all for it. I hope that sometime in the future we can have good old warp back in but I'd prefer it only on small ships as that would allow them to fulfil a small raider role something I don't see happening in 2.0. Maybe I'll be wrong and we won't need it.

The FTL inhibitor you suggest is probably a pain in the butt to code and optimize. It also makes consideration of location in expansion meaningless for purposes of defense.

Optimising aside as we don't know either way expansion position would still have meaning against hyperdrive ships, it would mean that you need to look at enemy fleet composition. As I said light ships should be able to choose hyper/warp with warp being a midgame tech available to allow corvettes to do something to hamper the enemy war effort. I think if you built a good sensor system combined with a good FTL inhib system you could have an awesome choice of focusing on shutting down raiders or building a giant fort to stop their battle fleets.

 

[Sinister2202]

If allowing warp for smaller ships doesn't cause imbalance in the game, then why not? Although I'd rather see some sort of stealth technologies for small raider ships, so they can trespass into territory undetected and unseen for certain period of time, but revealed when they attack mining stations. They should be able to reactivate stealth when they are departing as well, but will be vulnerable to certain sensors... This can also fill in some spot for the espionage aspect, if they do decide to add espionage into this game.

 

[zukodark]

I feel that this is a problem that can be remedied easier that removing Warp and Wormholes We already have the FTL Inhibitor but the key problem with these is that you'd need to build them into every single system and ensure that they survive long enough for your fleets to engage the enemy. I feel that this could be solved by having an Advanced version of the FTL inhibitor with an area pf control that breaks the warp-field/reroutes the wormhole and pulls them out at the location of the emitter, this means that you can defend against warp/wormhole empires and if they aren't careful with sensors and scanning catch them off guard and conduct some cleaver ambushes.

The problem here is that the FTL inhibitor is not solve-all solution.

For hyperdrives, we'd want it to just protect chokepoints and the vital systems they are in. However this is utterly ineffective for warp and wormholes.

For warpdrive, we'd want it to be like your idea. By pulling travelling fleets towards it, these star systems would become hidden chokepoints that you don't choose when to fight, and that might catch you off-guard.That unexpectedness would be very likely to favor ships always travelling in doomstacks, since you can't even hope to control when you fight that chokepoint. But at the very least the defender chooses where these are in stead of having to rely on RNG. Problem is that this obviously wouldn't work for hyperdrives, as it could potentially pull them away from their own hyperlanes, and could be abused to isolate hyperdrive fleets. Wormholes don't travel in space in the first place, so this would be an odd mechanic for them. I do however think warp-only could work instead of hyperdrive only, with it's own strengths and weaknesses. I'm just glad they made a choice.

For wormholes, we'd want it to catch fleets at their destination. Essentially pulling opened wormholes towards itself. This has the same problems and strengths as warpdrive, but is fundamentally different. Hyperdrives would not work well these. I guess it would misdirect warp fleets towards it? The problem here is that wormholes have so large a range that the entire enemy country can be attacked. It is sort of like if your entire army consisted of paratroopers. This freedom would be very hard to balance in a way to provide interesting strategy IMO, even on its own.

It would be a pain to have all of these versions of FTL-inhibitors, or even two of them, ingame. Both for the developers and more importantly, for many of the players. Hyperdrives would get even worse a pick whatever happens. Either they fundamentally don't work with the FTL-inhibitors, or their FTL would be extremely easy to counter. Imagine wormholes empires having an extreme ease of appearing at blocked chokepoints quickly.

 

[Melfice_Cyrum]

We keep saying that because the dev team didn't actually seem to attempt to do any balancing. They took away Hyperspace jumps from anywhere in the system and gave warp ridiculous cooldowns. Most of the discussions seemed hinged around FTL inhibitors, but A) Those are only really necessary if you're trying to wall off borders, and B) the UI for dangerous systems can't be that difficult to communicate bad stars to the player. It looks so much like throwing the baby out with the bathwater to gut the FTL system.

Map generation that relies more on clusters of stars, and at such sizes that the levels of FTL drives, bring progressively larger areas of the galaxy you can explore. No new mechanics, but using existing mechanics in a more natural and logical way.

Here's an idea for Wormholes. Make generating a wormhole take a lot longer unless you have a wormhole generator already in the system. Great for jetting around your carefully planned network. Crap for the start of a big offensive against the enemies, or expanding soon and rapidly.

Another oddity that hampers people is getting cut off by borders. How exactly does one close a border in space, anyway? It's more of a gentleman's agreement, yes? So just make it so you can travel to any system you want, regardless of who owns it, and let diplomatic penalties and casus bellis result for the empires who don't appreciate it.

There's lots of things to try that aren't complicated, and utilize existing mechanics.

I'd bet actual money the devs tried this.

- Warp having ridiculous cooldowns *is* it's only point of balance. If Warp didn't have long cooldowns, it'd be strictly superior to Hyperlanes in every way save actual transit time (since Warp can't dead-end like Hyperlanes can until 2.0

- Hyperlanes can't jump anywhere in the system as again, a balancing point. They have the fastest point-to-point transit speed and unless they dead-end they can make the fastest jumps in the game.

- Walling off borders would become necessary, especially during battle since wars don't care about closed borders.

- Wormholes taking longer to open doesn't change how broken Wormholes are. I can literally jump my entire fleet stack from wherever I started past every defense you've made and occupy any planet I want at will. The amount of time it takes to make that jump is utterly irrelevent to the godlike long distance supremacy that enables.

 

[Crenickator]

I'd bet actual money the devs tried this.

- Warp having ridiculous cooldowns *is* it's only point of balance. If Warp didn't have long cooldowns, it'd be strictly superior to Hyperlanes in every way save actual transit time (since Warp can't dead-end like Hyperlanes can until 2.0

- Hyperlanes can't jump anywhere in the system as again, a balancing point. They have the fastest point-to-point transit speed and unless they dead-end they can make the fastest jumps in the game.

- Walling off borders would become necessary, especially during battle since wars don't care about closed borders.

- Wormholes taking longer to open doesn't change how broken Wormholes are. I can literally jump my entire fleet stack from wherever I started past every defense you've made and occupy any planet I want at will. The amount of time it takes to make that jump is utterly irrelevent to the godlike long distance supremacy that enables.

We didn't see anything the devs tried, and what we did see was uninspired number tweaking.

Been over this many times in various places. Range is another thing we can play with for warp, and system density/galaxy generation can be altered to make Warp, especially in the early game, have much more trouble going everywhere at any time, while still maintaining the freedom that if it's in range, you can get there. Secondly, part of the frustration of having a long warp cooldown was that your fleet had to just sit there, even when you weren't planning to leave the system right away. Allowing movement, but not FTL in the intervening time period would remove a lot of frustration.

Hyperlanes were always supposed to be fast. Being constrained to set paths is a major drawback, especially on dead-ends or routes that don't work out in your favor. Is being too fast that much of a problem, especially when a studious enemy can see exactly the route you'll have to take to get somewhere?

No walls in space, please. Especially not at some arbitrary border.

For wormholes, this is, again, a range problem. It can be solved like Warp above. It may have another problem, a perception problem, because it does seem like players REALLY, REALLY HATE fleets being able to jump through their territory. It seems obvious to me that if you were trying to defend a particular planet, you'd put the defenses there, but a lot of other don't think that. It's naval warfare vs. land warfare, and unless you're after naval warfare, we'll probably never agree.

Spitballing again:
Warp: Can still go anywhere, but instead of cooldown, is the only FTL that requires you to traverse the system.
Hyperlane: Still fast, still predetermined paths. Maybe not capable of jumping anywhere in the system, but instead of having to go to the edge of the system, goes to the system's star, and appearing at the next star. Great for aggression, as you'll appear right in the thick of it immediately, guns hot.
Wormholes: Can still project a wormhole to a system without a generator, but this has less range, and takes longer. The real advantage is building your gate network to allow fast travel within your own empire. I would consider making wormhole generators able to be built anywhere, not just at system edges. Both to make them defendable by putting them closer to planets/stations, and at the same time not making enemy fleets have to go out of their way to destroy a generator. A generator built near a planet will generally go down with the planet's defenses, making arriving wormhole fleets take longer.

 

[leax256]

...Edit: Seeing alot of "Nopes" aka "Respectfully Disagree" What's bad about the idea? I think it's pretty childish to look at my points and just say "Na mate" and move on without explaining why you disagree.

well for me it was cause it seems like you are trying to find a way to defend keeping them based only on the fact that the others were removed and not looking at the changes as a whole.

for example

This is a lazy strategy and reduces the possibility of raiding. It reinforces the toxic doom stack meta instead of fighting it. One of the best strategies I've discovered is to have small corvette fleets darting around raiding small undefended systems destroying infrastructure and avoiding confrontation. It's forced my opponents to start to build defensive outposts in strategic systems. Exactly what you should have to do. By crippling their industries and using hit and run tactics against their Space Ports I destroyed their ability to reinforce while they started breaking off smaller forces to handle my raiders. Eventually I gained the upper hand and decisively beat half their fleet forcing them to a white peace. If it was hyperlane only I'd have to jump a spiral into their territory (different arms) and you can bet they'd of had their entire fleet there.

because several other changes not only encourage this kind of tactic but actually make it possible.

 

[Derp]

also raiding right now is a mostly useless tactic and if you can afford to divert forces to dick around in their territory you could just crush them outright