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KingAlamar

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Maybe do it yourself? I'm no modder by myself but all I read and hear it's quite easy. That is, of course, if you or some of your group are willing to invest some spare time.

Don't get me wrong here, I totally agree to you since I stopped playing when 2.0 was announced, too.

(Reading your post again I figure that the bug part is maybe about the base game and not the mod. Of course you cannot fix base game bugs within a mod but only mitigate them)

While I could be wrong I understand that not only is Warp "not officially supported" any more but Stellaris ripped the code out of the base game that handled Warp. That's at the core of at least some of the issues the prior posters are referring to.
 

elektrizikekswerk

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While I could be wrong I understand that not only is Warp "not officially supported" any more but Stellaris ripped the code out of the base game that handled Warp. That's at the core of at least some of the issues the prior posters are referring to.
I know that.
I was more talking about a mod based upon 1.9 not 2.0+. I thought that would have been clear from context (switching to older versions of the game). Sorry for the misunderstanding. :)
 

KingAlamar

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Fair enough. I saw that in some of the latter posts.

It's too bad that economics / IP laws / etc. wouldn't allow for us to be able to get at the source code of the game to "Fix it ourselves" so to speak.
 

DizietSma

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While I could be wrong I understand that not only is Warp "not officially supported" any more but Stellaris ripped the code out of the base game that handled Warp. That's at the core of at least some of the issues the prior posters are referring to.

Ah, well that would explain why the ST:NH mod team were forced to stick with star lanes and keep that awful glacial sublight travel speed across each and every star system on the ship's path. I always assumed they did the best they could, but yeah totally ripping all the warp code out would cramp anybody's style.

How do those of you who play the base game cope with it taking forever to get anywhere? I mean even if you like star lanes, I'm surprised people dont complain more about the pace of the game just being totally crippled by 2.0. How did that even get past beta testing?
 

methegrate

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Ah, well that would explain why the ST:NH mod team were forced to stick with star lanes and keep that awful glacial sublight travel speed across each and every star system on the ship's path. I always assumed they did the best they could, but yeah totally ripping all the warp code out would cramp anybody's style.

How do those of you who play the base game cope with it taking forever to get anywhere? I mean even if you like star lanes, I'm surprised people dont complain more about the pace of the game just being totally crippled by 2.0. How did that even get past beta testing?

That actually surprises me too. Post-2.0 I found the game unplayable on any setting but "Fastest." Otherwise you do literally just spend your time watching dots crawl across the screen. You'll order an attack, then get up, make a sandwich, watch a couple YouTube videos and come back to see your ships arriving.
 

KingAlamar

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While not necessarily accurate that's why some [maybe me?] claim that 2.x feels more like trench warfare [in terms that things plod along]. I mostly play relatively tall though so that minimizes the impact.

When you are able to spam gateways everywhere, get jump drives, explore wormholes, etc. things pick back up again.
 

methegrate

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While not necessarily accurate that's why some [maybe me?] claim that 2.x feels more like trench warfare [in terms that things plod along]. I mostly play relatively tall though so that minimizes the impact.

When you are able to spam gateways everywhere, get jump drives, explore wormholes, etc. things pick back up again.

That sounds fair, although tbh I don't have the patience to get that far... If jump drives, gateways, etc. were all short-term solutions that would be one thing. But that's all late game stuff. By the time I would get that far up the tech tree I've already gotten incredibly bored.
 

KingAlamar

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That sounds fair, although tbh I don't have the patience to get that far... If jump drives, gateways, etc. were all short-term solutions that would be one thing. But that's all late game stuff. By the time I would get that far up the tech tree I've already gotten incredibly bored.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just telling folks that I get by with playing tallish & fairly passive and then start doing stuff late game. That style isn't for everyone ...
 

BlackUmbrellas

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How do those of you who play the base game cope with it taking forever to get anywhere? I mean even if you like star lanes, I'm surprised people dont complain more about the pace of the game just being totally crippled by 2.0. How did that even get past beta testing?
Multiple fleets housed in forwards bases, a priority on scouting wormhole links, a tendency to utilize Federations or vassal-focused conquest, usually playing on no more than a mid-sized galaxy, and an acceptance that a game will take many days to complete.
 

Chaoswind

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Oh, all FTL suggestions are meant to be here? Okie Dokie

Cross posting from the Steam forums.

And yes this made me upset enough to start using this forum account, so you can probably see that someone fucked up, as a member of the silent majority has joined the vocal minority.

-.-.-..-.-

New player with purchase remorse right here.

And the argument that features shouldn't be removed willy nilly is a fairly innocuous and extremely compelling one.

I bought the game expecting a more improved version of what a friend had recommended to me a while ago and instead, I found a different version that isn't terrible but is certainly missing some of the things I was expecting to find.

For example, the three different starting FTL methods were a fairly interesting feature of the game that I was expecting to find, but I see has been removed. I can see how BALANCING the different FTL methods would be a pain in the ass, but I think Paradox made a HUGE mistake by completely removing them, instead of just giving ALL of them to the players from the very start.


Hyperlane was the easier method to balance of all of them, so making it the standard makes an incredible amount of sense, but the other ones should still be included in the game as well and their implementation would be so simple that I can't believe the game designers failed to do their jobs properly.

Lets look at the emergency FTL mechanic to save fleets from destruction, that flavorless mechanic should be tied to the Wormhole stations of old; your ships can use the emergency ftl jump to escape a battle they are losing IF they are within range of a wormhole station and they will jump towards the aforementioned station and suffer damage as a result. Wormhole stations take some minor amount of resources to build an maintain, but the mechanic can be used by everyone and it increases the strategic dept of the game.

Warp should still be in the game as an earlier form of the current jump drives; the penalties would be worse (suffer damage and higher stat negative bonuses that last at least a year), the range would be shorter, etc. But the ability to bypass choke points would be part of the strategic pool option from the VERY beginning of the game instead of being a cheeky late game move.

Those are EASY things that could be added to the game RIGHT now and I honestly don't see WHY they aren't, however looking at other changes is clear that someone in the developer team isn't doing their job.

You NEVER take things out of a game if you can balance them and improve on them, taking things out of a game should be avoided at all cost because its a huge waste for the developers that took the time to make the mechanics in the first place and a waste of time to the players that learned to play with them.
 

Chaoswind

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As already stated, this isn't a return to the three FTL systems of old, having players play with three different FTL system is impossible to properly balance, so Hyperlanes being the standard mode of FTL transportation is what makes the most sense, however there wasn't any need to entirely remove the other systems from the game, or lock them behind late game tech options and doing so was a mistake, they should be situational tools available to everyone from the start.

Day one Gateways and Jump Drives would totally work if there are proper penalties tied to them, Jump Drives ALREADY have penalties on them so you just scale them up at level one warp drives and keep lowering them until you reach the current penalties for jump drives.
Jump Drives: 200 day cooldown, 50% reduction to damage and sublight speed while the cooldown is in effect.
Warp Drive III: 400 day cooldown, 50% reduction to damage and sublight speed while cooldown is in effect, also ships take 30% damage to their Hull, 25% damage to their armor and 50% damage to their shields after its use.
Warp Drive II: 550 day cooldown, 60% reduction to damage and sublight speed while cooldown is in effect, also ships take 45% damage to their Hull, 50% damage to their armor and 100% shield damage after its use.
Warp Drive I (starting tech): 700 day cooldown, 70% reduction to damage and sublight speed while cooldown is in effect, also ships take 60% damage to their Hull, 100% damage to their armor and 100% shield damage after its use.

This increases the number of strategic options that can be used during certain situations (being boxed in by civilizations that close borders by default) but carries penalties heavy enough that people won't use them without reason. Right now all you need to protect your borders against other players in an early game is a sufficiently upgraded Bastion starbase and a small fleet to serve as bait to "catch" enemy fleets that try to bypass the Bastion by staying in the outskirts of the star system.
Warp Drives allowing fleets to bypass choke points makes star lane detection range be actually important because detecting a hostile fleet warp jump means you have a lot of time to kill them and discourages people from leaving large system holes inside their territory. By that same metric using warp jumps to get a better attack angle on an enemy is a huge gamble because your fleet is going to be significantly weaker and could be easily destroyed by much weaker fleets.
This also means that since the option exists from the very beginning players will have more experience dealing with the tactic, also its better for flavor as the jump drive technology doesn't come out of the blue. The same would apply to the Gateway technology group.
Activated Gate network: would be the final tech level for the gateways and would be how the gates work at this moment, IE you can go from one gateway to any other gateway in the network either owned by you or one of your allies.
Earlier iterations of this tech would increase the range and reduce the penalties tied to emergency FTL jumps during a retreat and also would control WHERE the ships would be retreating to IE to the closest Experimental gateway station, this also means that the Jump Gate technology has better flavor as you are developing the technology as your civilization advances, not just unlocking a new FTL method out of the blue, or having your ships have ridiculous emergency escape FTL capabilities that they don't have in any other situation.
 

KingAlamar

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As already stated, this isn't a return to the three FTL systems of old, having players play with three different FTL system is impossible to properly balance, so Hyperlanes being the standard mode of FTL transportation is what makes the most sense, however there wasn't any need to entirely remove the other systems from the game, or lock them behind late game tech options and doing so was a mistake, they should be situational tools available to everyone from the start.

I agree that it's be rough trying to balance hyperlane only civs with civs that can Warp / Wormhole if they stay that way all game. However I think SOME [not all] of the problems could be solved with a limited set of changes while keeping Warp & Wormhole techs:

  • All ships of all empires start out with hyperlane engines. This is mounted in the standard slot where enginers are today.
  • All ships have an optional module so that they could be outfitted with another engine type ... like Warp / Wormhole / Jump / etc.
  • If you have the tech to unlock the optional engine module you can add it to your ships
  • The Warp & Wormhole tech would be very rare [think Mega Engineering]. Scanning debris would unlock the ability to research it though and is the quickest. Having a research agreement with a civ that knows that tech could act as a big multiplier. Buying a Warp / Wormhole capable ship from caravaneers could work similar to scanning debris. Same goes with anomalies where you "find / recover" abandoned ships.

If you want space terrain then you could just arm-wave some things like:
  • You can't engage Warp / Wormhole while in radius of a Neutron Star, Black Hole, "Jump Inhibitor", or even Nebula ... I.E. you must use hyperlane only if you're close to one of these.
  • You can't have the "endpoint/destination" of Warp / Wormhole be within the radius of the above. I.E. you have to approach the above terrain using hyperlane-only.
  • These items could be fixed via the UI if need be


Problems that it wouldn't solve [or would make WORSE]:
  • Ship Pathing would be a pain-in-the-@ss. Updates to manually specifying piracy routes, AI time to figure out how to go between X & Y, etc.
  • Whack-a-mole ... In 1.9 and earlier when it was obvious you were going to kill everyone it was annoying to chase down fleets because they had much more movement options. If you can't solve this problem in isolation that might be enough by itself to keep hyperlane-only :)
  • Probably 10 million other things I'm not thinking of right now.

I have ideas about how to address the problems but no solution is going to be perfect
 

mac2636

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I thought game balance challenges were not the driving force behind removing the other two FTL methods. Thought I remember reading, freeing up resource overhead was the driving need.
 

KingAlamar

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I thought game balance challenges were not the driving force behind removing the other two FTL methods. Thought I remember reading, freeing up resource overhead was the driving need.

I believe that was certainly part of the story we were given. I also seem to recall a desire to introduce "space terrain" and the easiest way to get people to pay attention to the terrain was to force hyperlane-only so you couldn't just Warp / Jump around the terrain.

I have been told that there was no realistic way to fix what was broken with FTL. I disagree BUT I'm sure my idea(s) or similar probably had a lower perceived ROI ... Basically it's a lot cheaper to cut out features than to fix them esp. if there are complicated interactions.