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Demirkirat

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Hello.

I've been playing FtG for 3 years now (though I have EU3 I've always prefered FtG to EU3). I've heard much good things about EU4. Provided that I feel much more comfortable with the EU2-system, do you think it is worth buying EU4 or does this latter merely amount to a Eu3-like (with some improvements) ?

What is the opinion of FtG-players regarding this issue ? Is EU4 a good way to reconcile FtG-players with EU3-gameplay ?

Another point: I have the feeling that since EU4 FtG Community has been shrinking giving the impression that many FTG-players have turned to EU4. Is that true ?
 

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Bueh. It's still entirely different game. I suppose you would simply have to try it on your own. Personally, after playing demo...no, that's not it for me.

While forum here might seem to be half-dead, I still play it (had some fun games recently), it's just that sometimes you need to take break from constant modding really.

As far as I know only one or two guys from here got into EU IV. Me, or Basi Zwei simply call it "abomination" and keep embarking on another nostalgic journeys in world of FtG.

I supppose it's because FtG, while doesn't have nearly as much features as EU IV, is simply complex and more or less well balanced, so there's always a reason to play one more game sooner or later.

Forum might seem to be dead, but no worries - we (or at least me) are watching, always. ;)
 

Timur Khan

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While there is a silence around new beta versions are still coming, some mods are still active and hopefully someday we will have finished AGCEEP mod. If you ask me FTG is better, with simple interface, simple graphics but the best gameplay. :) Anyway if you want to try EU IV - wait for a 30%-50% discount, or wait 1 or 2 more years to get it for around 10$.
 

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I like EU4 far better than EU3, although perhaps I haven't played enough to find the flaws others see.
 

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I tried EUIII but never got into it. My feeling is that when they made it they wanted to go as far away as possible from the EUII's deterministic model. An error of judgement in my opinion because historical events were a great idea, one has only to look at AGCEEP's popularity or its contributors' list. Of course, the vanilla events triggers were terrible so instead of fixing them and improving/adding conditions, they scrapped the whole system and decided to have the same random generic events for all nations, and even more they made the ideas also generic so that every country could colonize anywhere right from the beginning.

Much has been improved regarding the deterministic/circumstancial issue in EUIV. They reintroduced some country specific historical events with decent triggers and restricted colonization ideas to historical colonizers, for the AI at least. The trade is also a big improvement in my opinion over the EUII/FTG/EUIII system. All in all, I would say that EUIV is a much better game than EUIII for people who prefer plausible history to fantasy outcomes.
 

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EU4 is as different from EU3 as EU3 was different from EU2, and even more different from EU2.

That said, I like EU4 most of all the EU games, while I never really warmed to EU3 the way I did with EU2 and FtG. But the experience remains very different from FtG, so it's impossible to say if you'd like it or not without trying.
 

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Ok, thanks for your accurate replies. As for EU4, I will definitely download the demo so that I'll make my own opinion about it. Anyway I'm glad to see FtG community still active.
Maybe it is not the good thread for that question but has any of you heard of an existing adaptation of The Age of Timur scenario (starting in 1399) for the 1.3 betas ? If not does anyone know whether it is in the pipes for a coming beta ?
 

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Ok, thanks for your accurate replies. As for EU4, I will definitely download the demo so that I'll make my own opinion about it. Anyway I'm glad to see FtG community still active.
Maybe it is not the good thread for that question but has any of you heard of an existing adaptation of The Age of Timur scenario (starting in 1399) for the 1.3 betas ? If not does anyone know whether it is in the pipes for a coming beta ?

Best ask that in AoT´s own thread:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?442839-Age-of-Timur&p=16906519#post16906519
 

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Bueh. It's still entirely different game. I suppose you would simply have to try it on your own.

Yes, and for that reason, I'd say that it's not an either/or question.



I like EU4 far better than EU3, although perhaps I haven't played enough to find the flaws others see.


I don't care much for either, but I vastly prefer EU 4 to EU 3.

I like FtG much better than EU 4, but EU 4 is still worth a try. If, that is, you don't mind the departures from history that can and do arise.
 

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Hi there :) Checking in to say that after spending some 800 hours in EU4 I gonna try FtG now. In fact, I've never even heard of it before, I just got bored and decided to get back to classics (EU2) and was pleasently surprised to find a new game. Hopefully, it's great.
 

Timur Khan

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Hi there :) Checking in to say that after spending some 800 hours in EU4 I gonna try FtG now. In fact, I've never even heard of it before, I just got bored and decided to get back to classics (EU2) and was pleasently surprised to find a new game. Hopefully, it's great.

It's EU2 on steroids! :D Believe me you will love it. :)
 

DicRoNero

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Well, loaded it and tried. Damn, this UI makes my eyes literally bleed. It's so confusing and small, I wonder how I played that back then :D Sure, I shouldn't have expected much from my first (after 10 years break) 5-minutes run, but still.

It would be really great to get some EU2 sort of mod for EU4, which was developed with much higher resolution in mind and is just generally much more user-friendly. Anyone knows any?
 

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FTG it's classic game, and this both games are completely different.
 

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Although I pre-ordered EU4 (lured in by the free CK2 deal), I've only now begun my first try-out campaign, so I thought I'd add something to this thread.

I should point out that I've never played EU3, so I'm not aware which features were introduced for that.

I'm playing as Denmark and have reached the 1570s after starting at 1444. I'm still only learning how to play, therefore. I'll split the comparison into two parts, with three things that stand out initially that I think are better in EU4 than in FtG and three things that seem worse.

Better in EU4

1. The number of options available - In peace resolution, for example, it's great to have the option of forcing your enemy to cancel treaties, release nations, renounce claims, etc., instead of simply demanding provinces and/or money. I also like the number of buildings available and the way that building runs throughout the game instead of being restricted to a few isolated phases.
2. The restrictions on expansion and the military - Lots of people moan about these on the EU4 forum, but I think that the system is generally a good one. Although it's too easy to fabricate a claim in order to get a CB, you really have to be careful in order to avoid becoming the target of a coalition (which has already happened to me, although I managed to avoid attack). I also like the force limits and the need to replace outdated ships.
3. Technology - I much prefer the allocation of monarch points and choosing ideas to shifting a slider one place every ten years.

Worse in EU4

1. Combat - The AI here seems to be better, but who on earth had the idea of allowing units to reinforce automatically to full strength following casualties? It's especially strange to see your armies reinforcing during a seige in enemy territory when they should be losing strength from attrition. This whole thing feels so unrealistic. The shattered armies mechanic is also difficult to take seriously. In my opinion, these two factors are definitely the worst thing in the game.
2. Religious conversion - It seems ridiculously easy in EU4 to convert to Protestantism. You take a prestige hit, but it doesn't seem to affect you that much. Meanwhile, you get to keep your alliances with Catholic nations, albeit with a small opinion hit. In particular, it takes only about nine months to convert a province, with guaranteed success (as far as I can tell) and using a resource (a missionary) that would only be redundant otherwise. Meanwhile, the increased revolt risk during the conversion process can be completely removed with the harsh suppression option. I actually think that converting a province is a bit too difficult in FtG, but EU4 goes way too far in the opposite direction.
3. Instant Stability Improvement - You have to spend administrative points on this, of course, but it just seems so unnatural, at least to someone who is used to FtG.

Maybe I've posted this too soon. I'm unable to comment on colonisation, for example. You've probably also noticed that I tend to favour restrictions, which other people might not like. But I hope that this gives some idea of what to expect as an FtG player trying out EU4.

Overall, I expect that I will continue to play both games, as I like them both. What I'd really like is a combination with the better features of each one, but that's just a dream, I'm afraid.
 

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How do you feel about the trade nodes system? I haven't tried EU4 (yet), but a friend who has was explaining it and it seems, at least from his description and from what I've read/seen screenshots of, much more interesting than the EU2 trade system. Actual flow of value from one place to the other and such...
 

Chicken Spadge

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How do you feel about the trade nodes system? I haven't tried EU4 (yet), but a friend who has was explaining it and it seems, at least from his description and from what I've read/seen screenshots of, much more interesting than the EU2 trade system. Actual flow of value from one place to the other and such...

I would say that the trading system is definitely better in EU4, but just about anything would be better than simply sending merchants!

I should point out that I haven't got Wealth of Nations, which is supposed to enhance the trade system somewhat. All I can say is that although trade is very important in EU4 in terms of your income, it's still very much an automatic element in the base game. In my opinion, the trade nodes look more interesting than they really are. The main difference when playing as a sea-faring nation is that you need to build light ships to protect/enhance your trade, which does add an interesting element.
 

Chicken Spadge

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Meanwhile, something else that spoils warfare for me in EU4 that I forgot to mention above is the fact that countries seem to be far too willing to grant military access.

In FtG, you really have to have good relations with countries before they will give you access, and even then you don't always get it. In EU4, it almost feels automatic - even quite hostile countries are usually willing to let you through.

This is especially apparent when you are playing as Denmark. I've built up a decent fleet, and in FtG this would mean that I would be better able to protect myself from countries that are some distance away, but when armies can simply march large distances overland and pass through several other countries unhindered in order to attack you, your fleet feels devalued.

It also devalues the position of heading the HRE.
 

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Well, loaded it and tried. Damn, this UI makes my eyes literally bleed. It's so confusing and small, I wonder how I played that back then :D Sure, I shouldn't have expected much from my first (after 10 years break) 5-minutes run, but still.

It would be really great to get some EU2 sort of mod for EU4, which was developed with much higher resolution in mind and is just generally much more user-friendly. Anyone knows any?

That´s strange as FtG already supports higher resolutions than EU2 did.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?427184-Development-Diary-1-1st-of-September-2009
Is perhaps the demo limited in that aspect?