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coldsteel

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I've just played my most frustrating EU4 ironman game. I started as Burgundy in 1444, and wanted to play a continental game -- that is remain Burgundy, not switch to Netherlands. After taking a few of the small independent provinces (Barrois, Loire, Metz), I started making slightly bolder moves. I took out Calais from England in the aftermath of the HYW, then I knocked down Austria and took Liege and other HRE provinces that are rightfully Burgundian.

With France embroiled in a war with Castille, I made my real move and declared war on France. This was extremely difficult because my manpower was lower than France's but having taken administrative as an idea, I was able to deploy large mercenary armies funded by many loands. After the first war was just barely won and I repaid my loans, subsequent wars against France became easier and I eventually took Paris.

At this point it's just after 1500, and I now have a gigantic army limit, though manpower cannot quite sustain such an army for long periods of time; I also have the largest income, through owning a lot of rich provinces, and am able to easily sustain +2 advisors. Everything is looking great until Reformation hits. Paris and two of my highest income provinces quickly switch to Protestant. Although I'm quite comfortably in command of the Curia, I decided to switch to Protestant since it appeared impossible to convert the provinces back to Catholicism. After I switch to Protestant all hell breaks loose -- gigantic rebellions including many externally funded constantly spring up. Normally, my army wouldn't have a problem beating these up, but my income has now plummeted to the point where I had to reduce my army from 80 regiments to 10 (!!), and am still bleeding money doing so even after firing my advisors and reducing the fleet maintenance. My missionary is constantly working and I've enacted every decision that increases missionary strength; no other provinces switch to Protestant by themselves after the initial wave, and the conversion process is extremely slow; I've even set free a few Catholic vassals. It's now 1600, I only have about 30% religious unity and after about 100 years of knocking down religious (and increasingly nationalist Flemish/Dutch) rebels I have just declared bankruptcy. My 10 regiments have 0.5 morale and I now have a backlog of 80 rebellious regiments on my lands. I seem pretty doomed.

I don't understand what I was supposed to do to make the transition easier. Am I just not supposed to switch to Protestant and doing so is a death trap?
 

grommile

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What you're supposed to do to make the transition easier is:
  • Take Religious ideas, to get an extra missionary, improved missionary performance, and reduced stability cost.
  • Keep your stored admin points high after about 1490 so that you can buy yourself back to positive stability quickly after converting.
  • Consider taking Defender of the Faith, for an extra missionary.
 

gaius valerius

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The bigger the country the bigger the bite in yo' ass :) Playing as France in Ironman I'm running in a similar situation. I've got the Anjouan heritage, am safely installed as one of the strongest powers in Europe. But I alas decided to convert and rebellion rebellion everywhere... even though I'm winning battles my manpower is plummeting... XD I don't mind, I've failed so many ironman sessions. That's what it is: ironman.
 

AnguyTheArcher

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You said "I released few catholic vassals". Why not release more? Or just a few and then sell them provinces. You should keep just small core of provinces that are already protestant or easy to convert and get rid of everything else. Once you lose religious turmoil things will instantly improve.
 

coldsteel

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That's what it is: ironman.

No kidding, this was quite the sobbering experience!

You said "I released few catholic vassals". Why not release more?

I guess that's a solution, but it would have taken a LOT of releases to get my unity over 80%. Like gaius said... "The bigger the country the bigger the bite"

What you're supposed to do to make the transition easier is

Thanks, those are good suggestions. I see Religious as waste of an idea tree in general, but I guess if I'm going to switch it would be a good one to have. I actually did have enough admin points to get my stability up, but kept getting hit by many -1 stab events. Additionally, with religious unity of only 20% at the beginning, stability boosts were extremely expensive. I didn't take Defender of the Faith, because I was shocked by how much money I was losing even though I reduced most of my army, my fleets, and my advisors.

My hope was that if I kept putting down rebellions, this would give time so that some of the provinces would switch by themselves to Protestant. When I played Denmark --> Scandinavia, and swapped to Protestantism, in 20 years most of Scandinavia swapped to Protestant by itself. As Burgundy, in almost 100 years, almost no province changed to Protestant by event.
 

Dustman

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Search forums for suggestions for easier conversions. As a rule of thumb, convert ASAP, the moment Reformation hits. If you waited long, it takes time to convert. And if you want to stay Catholic, Religious Zeal modifier will eventually disappear, in ~25-30 years.

When you convert, stab hits the bottom, increasing revolt risk. Since you have low religious unity, your revolt risk increased even further. If you have intolerance, it's even higher. As result of your negative stability, legitimacy drops, increasing RR again. Negative stability by itself decrease income, and RR in provinces decrease it even more. As result, you have no money to support existing armies till situation stabilizes. To add to this, religious calamity starts, increasing RR considerably. And income drops again. When, due to constant revolts, your manpower drops below certain threshold, Peasant War may start.

In short, enjoy ;)
 

AnguyTheArcher

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I guess that's a solution, but it would have taken a LOT of releases to get my unity over 80%. Like gaius said... "The bigger the country the bigger the bite"

If you have 30% religious unity after 100 years you won't have other choice. There are many nice advices in this thread, but in your situation, I don't think they will be very useful. Those juicy provinces simply take too much time to convert and with turmoil you'll never be able to do it. Eventually your neighbors will tear you apart (in fact I'm surprised they didn't already).
 

coldsteel

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Yup, I was pretty surprised they didn't take me apart either. Except for foreign funding of religious rebels, no one declared war. To be fair, France was fighting similar religious rebellions.

When you convert, stab hits the bottom, increasing revolt risk. Since you have low religious unity, your revolt risk increased even further. If you have intolerance, it's even higher. As result of your negative stability, legitimacy drops, increasing RR again. Negative stability by itself decrease income, and RR in provinces decrease it even more. As result, you have no money to support existing armies till situation stabilizes. To add to this, religious calamity starts, increasing RR considerably. And income drops again. When, due to constant revolts, your manpower drops below certain threshold, Peasant War may start.

Yup, that's what I found out. My income dropped to -4 from +60, and it only got worse as interest started piling up. So I guess I should have switched to Reformation earlier? I did as soon as I had three provinces flipped by event which was quite fast and suggested there was good Reformation momentum. But no, no other provinces flipped by themselves after that.
 
Last edited:

Dakilla TM

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Always make sure you have the religious ideas before converting, as well as some admin power to boost stability. I always decide when the game starts if I want to stay catholic or convert, so I can be better prepared.

Next time, make sure you have religious ideas and enough admin power to boost stability to 0 or +1. If your manpower is low, hire mercenaries beforehand and get ready for the Burgundian Wars of Religion!
 

hauptman

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I always find it odd that the one idea set i cannot live without (religious) somone else calls it a waste... god are we playing the same game?
 

Dustman

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I always find it odd that the one idea set i cannot live without (religious) somone else calls it a waste... god are we playing the same game?

Well, maybe not ;) I really like Innovative and played several games without Religious, going Protestant. But I'm not really fond of mass conquest and prefer few key provinces in a region/trade node to many wrong culture/wrong religion crap... Innovative, Naval, Defensive and Quality are far above Religious on my list of must have. Well, unless I play Timurids or Russia.
 

hauptman

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Well, maybe not ;) I really like Innovative and played several games without Religious, going Protestant. But I'm not really fond of mass conquest and prefer few key provinces in a region/trade node to many wrong culture/wrong religion crap... Innovative, Naval, Defensive and Quality are far above Religious on my list of must have. Well, unless I play Timurids or Russia.

The better relations over time, cheaper (often free) stability, and prestige are such a huge bonus to anything you do... Conversion is not what makes religious powerful.

And the Cassus Belli is the best in the game, if you are looking to spread yourself around europe.
 

coldsteel

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I usually take Economic myself. In this particular game, I thought I'd give Administrative a try since it synergizes well with Burgundy's reduced mercenary costs.
 

ringhloth

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As a large country, you aren't going to convert easily. Ever. It's going to be painful for a few years.
  • Switch the instant that the reformation event pops up on your screen
  • Take Defender of Faith
  • Avoid war for years beforehand to make sure manpower is high
  • Stockpile admin for the stab
  • Prepare for a few years of rebel hell.
  • Take -RR adviser