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TheButterflyComposer

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And I'd love to be a president. Phoenix's family would still continue seeking the presidency, whether it be of America or the world.

Mm. Do they seek power to do good or merely for it's own sake? I think at some point they'd be corrupted. I certainly think between now and the begining of earth's stellaris game, both families would have their outcasts, their enemies and their sins to bear, as well as good.
 

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They have a long tradition of public service, like the Kennedys. Some no doubt would want the power itself, but most still cling to Phoenix's and Ellie's ideals.
 

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The dichotomy of Star Trek is that the mission of the Enterprise was to explore, while she was often used as a warship. The Enterprise should be an armed survey/explorer, not a major warship.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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The dichotomy of Star Trek is that the mission of the Enterprise was to explore, while she was often used as a warship. The Enterprise should be an armed survey/explorer, not a major warship.

Well then we get into the debate on what Starfleet was to the federation. It is the first and last line of defence for the federation and is as powerful as the other alpha quadrant militaries if not more so (cos they have one or two ship classes explicitly for combat. The rest are supposedly primarily science and welfare based).

But since we're talking about the Enterprise, it is sort of irrelevant. It was always a heavy crusier/dreadnaught class (dreadnaught afrer the ship name became the default for federation flagship) and in general the fastest, toughest and oftentimes best/largest ship the federation has. It should probably be no different here.
 

zenphoenix

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The dichotomy of Star Trek is that the mission of the Enterprise was to explore, while she was often used as a warship. The Enterprise should be an armed survey/explorer, not a major warship.
Well then we get into the debate on what Starfleet was to the federation. It is the first and last line of defence for the federation and is as powerful as the other alpha quadrant militaries if not more so (cos they have one or two ship classes explicitly for combat. The rest are supposedly primarily science and welfare based).

But since we're talking about the Enterprise, it is sort of irrelevant. It was always a heavy crusier/dreadnaught class (dreadnaught afrer the ship name became the default for federation flagship) and in general the fastest, toughest and oftentimes best/largest ship the federation has. It should probably be no different here.
It depends on which era we're talking about. The NX-01 Enterprise of the 2150s (Star Trek: Enterprise) was designed like a cross between a present-day US Navy submarine and NASA spacecraft. Emphasis is placed on its defensive capabilities, especially during the events of Season 3, as the Federation doesn't exist yet and Earth is just starting to explore the galaxy, which is potentially full of hostile powers. The NCC-1701 Enterprise of the 2200s (Star Trek original series) has an explicit mission to explore on behalf of the Federation, but the Alpha and Beta Quadrants haven't been fully explored yet. Kirk is pretty trigger-happy compared to the other captains (barring Janeway, but that's a different matter). A lot of times the Enterprise encounters hostile entities or entities whose motives can't be easily known, so it should also have decent military capabilities as well. And the Federation has only recently gotten out of a war with the Klingons (Star Trek: Discovery), so it makes sense they're still on a war footing. The NCC-1701-D Enterprise of the 2300s (The Next Generation) sets off on a similar exploration mission as the original Enterprise, but the Federation is now firmly established in the Alpha Quadrant, so there aren't as many major threats to face (peace has been established with the Klingons since the Original Series movies), and the Enterprise-D can focus on exploration. But as evident when the Borg attacked it can defend itself. Then again, the Federation was completely unprepared for the Dominion War, as most of Starfleet was geared toward exploration and not warfare. Only the USS Defiant was explicitly built as a warship (probably a corvette in Stellaris terms) in response to the Borg.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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Then again, the Federation was completely unprepared for the Dominion War, as most of Starfleet was geared toward exploration and not warfare. Only the USS Defiant was explicitly built as a warship (probably a corvette in Stellaris terms) in response to the Borg.

Okay but in the time of the Next Generation, it had become pretty clear that the federation has ridiculously powerful ships compared to the other alpha quadrant powers. The Enterprise D sustained 1000 people including fanilies, research labs, a huge array of leisure suites and so on. The Romulan Empire sent three or four of their most powerful warships whenever they really wanted the threaten/attack that ship. The Klingons, aside from that stupid movie, needed even more ships. As for the cardassians, they last several warships to one nebula starship operating alone in their space.

And by the end of the dominion war, the federation was losing, but had rebuilt their fleet three times and finally started making proper warships, which was good enough to stand up to a borg cubes assault for hours before being abandoned. As for their sovereign class, it waa shown to stand up and defeat (at cost) the absolutely most overpowered ship in the alpha quadrant (and a borg cube and sphere).

I always viewed the federation as a superpower compared to wannabe super powers. If they ever try to militerise, they tend to crush the alpha quadrant and whatever else gets in their way.
 

zenphoenix

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Okay but in the time of the Next Generation, it had become pretty clear that the federation has ridiculously powerful ships compared to the other alpha quadrant powers. The Enterprise D sustained 1000 people including fanilies, research labs, a huge array of leisure suites and so on. The Romulan Empire sent three or four of their most powerful warships whenever they really wanted the threaten/attack that ship. The Klingons, aside from that stupid movie, needed even more ships. As for the cardassians, they last several warships to one nebula starship operating alone in their space.

And by the end of the dominion war, the federation was losing, but had rebuilt their fleet three times and finally started making proper warships, which was good enough to stand up to a borg cubes assault for hours before being abandoned. As for their sovereign class, it waa shown to stand up and defeat (at cost) the absolutely most overpowered ship in the alpha quadrant (and a borg cube and sphere).

I always viewed the federation as a superpower compared to wannabe super powers. If they ever try to militerise, they tend to crush the alpha quadrant and whatever else gets in their way.
The Enterprise-D was built for long-term exploration missions lasting up to seven years. That's seven years of minimal contact with a starbase. Naturally the ship has to be designed to be self-sufficient and stand up to potential enemies. For all of the Federation's talk about pacifism, they invested a lot into weapons to defend themselves with. That's just when the Federation's going through an unprecedented period of galactic peace. The Dominion War shows just how overpowered Starfleet ships can become if the Federation goes to war, even if it took the Federation about two seasons to get there.

I'm also of the belief the Borg intentionally only sent one cube or sphere to attack the Federation each time. If they really wanted to assimilate the Federation, the last couple seasons of Voyager show they have thousands of cubes spread throughout the Delta Quadrant, and the transwarp network can drop them near Federation space (it might have even been in the Sol system itself). The Borg might have been sending only one cube to attack the Federation to probe its technology and defenses. If the cube manages to assimilate the Federation, then it's done. If it doesn't, like after Wolf 359, the cube can relay information on the Federation's defenses and technological advancement back to the Delta Quadrant; an episode of Voyager shows some drones assimilated at Wolf 359 were taken back to the Delta Quadrant. Then the Borg can adjust its weapons to counter the Federation's advances. The Borg might also want to wait until the Federation develops more advanced technology so the Borg can assimilate it. When the Federation reaches that stage, the Borg launches an all-out assault and overwhelms it. Would make great material for a post-Voyager series.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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The Enterprise-D was built for long-term exploration missions lasting up to seven years. That's seven years of minimal contact with a starbase. Naturally the ship has to be designed to be self-sufficient and stand up to potential enemies. For all of the Federation's talk about pacifism, they invested a lot into weapons to defend themselves with. That's just when the Federation's going through an unprecedented period of galactic peace. The Dominion War shows just how overpowered Starfleet ships can become if the Federation goes to war, even if it took the Federation about two seasons to get there.

Its a running fan theory that the federation doesn't pursue cloaking technology in general because their ships produce too much power to hide and cloaks sacrifice too many comforts and other things to be really useful.

As for the Borg, the issue writers have with them is the same as Dr Who has with Daleks (and to an extent, time lords). The more you reveal about their ridiculous power compared to everyone else (in the latter's case, compared to the rest of the universe, not judt a galaxy), the harder it is to write good stories without severely penalizing them from the begining. It is in fact an issue with the Federation as well, because they already established that within 200 years of NG, they have perfected timetravel and pretty much absorbed half the galaxy. This is before discovery was written of course and the reboot film franchise but Voyager as well had the issue of the Federation simply being too strong to threaten without a colossal war arc such as in Deep Space Nine. Unlike in Star Wars, where the nature of the force means that good guys and bad guys will eternally usurp each other, humanity wins in Star Trek, and proceeds to not cock it up (for the most part).
 

zenphoenix

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Its a running fan theory that the federation doesn't pursue cloaking technology in general because their ships produce too much power to hide and cloaks sacrifice too many comforts and other things to be really useful.

As for the Borg, the issue writers have with them is the same as Dr Who has with Daleks (and to an extent, time lords). The more you reveal about their ridiculous power compared to everyone else (in the latter's case, compared to the rest of the universe, not judt a galaxy), the harder it is to write good stories without severely penalizing them from the begining. It is in fact an issue with the Federation as well, because they already established that within 200 years of NG, they have perfected timetravel and pretty much absorbed half the galaxy. This is before discovery was written of course and the reboot film franchise but Voyager as well had the issue of the Federation simply being too strong to threaten without a colossal war arc such as in Deep Space Nine. Unlike in Star Wars, where the nature of the force means that good guys and bad guys will eternally usurp each other, humanity wins in Star Trek, and proceeds to not cock it up (for the most part).
And don't forget the last episode of Voyager having the Federation acquire ridiculously overpowered future technology.
 

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And don't forget the last episode of Voyager having the Federation acquire ridiculously overpowered future technology.

I mean...they already have holodecks and replicators and andriods. They've already got ridiculous powers. They just don't use them properly.

Should probably start a star trek military thread before the mods strike us down.
 

zenphoenix

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I mean...they already have holodecks and replicators and andriods. They've already got ridiculous powers. They just don't use them properly.

Should probably start a star trek military thread before the mods strike us down.
I mean, the other major powers and a few minor ones also have replicators and holodecks. And the Federation is still trying to understand androids.

But I agree, we should probably get back on topic.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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I mean, the other major powers and a few minor ones also have replicators and holodecks. And the Federation is still trying to understand androids.

But I agree, we should probably get back on topic.

It has been some time since I've seen stellaris aars and having not played it myself, could anyone say what interesting things an earth start could do?
 

zenphoenix

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It has been some time since I've seen stellaris aars and having not played it myself, could anyone say what interesting things an earth start could do?
I haven't played Stellaris, but most of the AARs I've seen are either pacifistic federation builders (scripted UN start) or xenophobic conquerors (scripted Commonwealth or custom start). Maybe you could try to find all of the primitives/pre-FTL species within reach and put them under your protection. Not invade or absorb them, just keep them within your borders to defend them from other species.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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I haven't played Stellaris, but most of the AARs I've seen are either pacifistic federation builders (scripted UN start) or xenophobic conquerors (scripted Commonwealth or custom start). Maybe you could try to find all of the primitives/pre-FTL species within reach and put them under your protection. Not invade or absorb them, just keep them within your borders to defend them from other species.

It is possible to play ckii like this too, expanding only with inheritance and marriges etc. No aggressive wars of expansion. It is...fairly difficult if you don't start with a proper inheritance law but I've found it interesting enough. A smaller scale playthrough certainly.
 

zenphoenix

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It is possible to play ckii like this too, expanding only with inheritance and marriges etc. No aggressive wars of expansion. It is...fairly difficult if you don't start with a proper inheritance law but I've found it interesting enough. A smaller scale playthrough certainly.
Ah, the Habsburg challenge. Or as I've heard it called sometimes in EUIV, the Luigi challenge. I don't know how they came up with that name.
 

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Ah, the Habsburg challenge. Or as I've heard it called sometimes in EUIV, the Luigi challenge. I don't know how they came up with that name.

Indeed, it turns early start Ireland from noob tutorial to utter hell in a handbasket. Pagan tribalism, strict gavelkind and one county starts? Now that is a challange for a Hapsburg run.

I was suprised a little by how easy it was to get personal unions in EUIV but then again, I have a very British notion of personal unions leading to long-lasting unified kingdoms whereas that was almost never the case in European history. Personal union expansion challange might be a good one too.
 

zenphoenix

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Indeed, it turns early start Ireland from noob tutorial to utter hell in a handbasket. Pagan tribalism, strict gavelkind and one county starts? Now that is a challange for a Hapsburg run.

I was suprised a little by how easy it was to get personal unions in EUIV but then again, I have a very British notion of personal unions leading to long-lasting unified kingdoms whereas that was almost never the case in European history. Personal union expansion challange might be a good one too.
Maybe an even bigger challenge is staying a OPM. In all of the CK2 games I've played, I've somehow always managed to get at least a king-level title through either a crusade or inheritance. Many times I've even inherited the HRE with my prestige alone. I don't usually play in Europe in EUIV, but when I do, I've almost never gotten a personal union. I don't know what I'm doing, as I always do royal marriages. It just never happens.
 

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