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Twoflower

Vile treacherous Judas
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Not sure I understand you, but I would never propose to abolish the French minors or Brabant, since both are important for game balance (I would NEVER ever want to see France starting with all those provinces) and historical accuracy, which is after all the most important thing in a game that intends to model history.
 

Kasperus

Field Marshmallow
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Well, also my highest priority is historical accuracy but to just to make every no-matter-how-dubious political constellation into a separate, independant country is not realistic and does not improve historicity and that is the core-point of my critics on your view of "historicity".

You don`t seem to understand that the definition of a country as it is today didn`t apply in the medieval feudal society. Many territories were just possesions or fiefs given by the overlord. Sometimes such a "vassal" acquired a lot of influence, promoted to a duke, and had even a chance to become a king. But did that make his possesions an independant country? He was still formally dependant to the king from who he acquired that territory in the first place. Not always was the king strong enough to keep him under control but there are not that many exaples of really breakthroughs between vassals and overlords (The most probably in HRE-controlled slavic world). So in fact Europe remained consisted of just a few country - Germany(HRE), France, some Spanish states, England, Scotland, Kalmar union, Papal State, Venice, Russia, Poland, Hungary and Ottomans as in 1419.

Of course, that doesn`t really make the game very interesting and so much more countries were "created". That was not that unrealistic perhaps for some territories (HRE or Russia for example) as the central power in there anno 1419 is almost fictionnal (though not so that anyone decided to leave the HRE till the Dutch revolt, isn`t that weird?). Already less realistic it becomes for France and ottoman sphere of control in Balkans, as some other east-european semi-independant states.

But as I can only support most choices that paradox made (after all: this IS a game and not a simulation of a history-book) and many things just aren`t well abstrahable in eu-engine, I get wary when someone tries to even more overextend it and make it less realistic than it already is. I will not argue on game-points - perhaps it makes it for some people more fun to be able to play Holland and become Netherlands later (totally unrealistic of course and too easy but maybe nice) but don`t try to use as argument for such changes historicity or realism as here you are not improving things by adding countries at least.

Btw, I do wonder how can one can care so much about historical accuracy and then work on a mod which mayor objective in the final release at least seems to be alternative history ;)
 

Hive

Lex Superior
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In the mod I'm working on, I have actually included Holland and made it possible for them to become Netherlands later on. I have thought about it being to easy, but I think they should be included in the game as well as have the chance to form the Netherlands. I'm thinking of ways to make their life a bit more difficult though.

Surely, the aguments both against and for including Holland are very good - and I think it could go either way - but I have decided to include them.