• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

hermithill

Major
62 Badges
Mar 5, 2013
547
279
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
This has certainly been discussed, but even after so many hours, I still don't understand how to be sure (or almost sure) that my (loyal) subjects will attach their armies to mine. I put them on supportive, place an army on the same province, tick the box "allow friendly...", try to move my unit, and... nothing (generally). Is there something that I'm missing? I see that some of you do that everytime (@atwix for example). So what is the trick?
 

TheMeInTeam

Field Marshal
54 Badges
Dec 27, 2013
30.279
18.955
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
Loyal AI set to supportive will move 12 stacks into stackwipes vs 20+ stacks, even though they have 28 regiments total. They will do this even if you also have a 1 stack set to "attach", ignoring attach orders. Despite being loyal, they will also ignore sieging objectives to fight battles.

The feature doesn't work. To the best of my knowledge, which combines more hours than I care to admit + a DECENT post count, there is nothing you can do. I haven't seen better players than me manage any consistent subject unit control either.

Makes the march/subject interaction mechanics weak too, since you can't trust these things to work any potential utility estimation gets a massive downgrade. Having a march SHOULD allow you to run a more efficient military if the alternative is 75% autonomy land, but in practice it's not so and they burn up a diplo slot uselessly. It's bad enough they can't pre-position, already costing precious time in war that makes their viability wane. That they can't follow even basic order concepts makes them pretty much junk, mostly core bots that are only kind-of capable even for that due to inefficiently boosting stab rather than coring unless OE is high...
 

hermithill

Major
62 Badges
Mar 5, 2013
547
279
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
I was under the impression that atwix often manages to lead subjects' armies. But perhaps I'm wrong. Sometimes it works for me, but most of the time it doesn't. It is very painful to have a large France under PU and to be absolutely unable to predict or even understand their behavior...
 

atwix

Manager of Micro
53 Badges
Mar 2, 2014
8.560
4.241
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • BATTLETECH
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Empire of Sin
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
I was under the impression that atwix often manages to lead subjects' armies. But perhaps I'm wrong. Sometimes it works for me, but most of the time it doesn't. It is very painful to have a large France under PU and to be absolutely unable to predict or even understand their behavior...

the rule on how to lead subjects and allies around is quite easy, once you understand the rules.

1. Subjects will never attach if not at war.

2. Subjects and allies will attach on owned, neutral or occupied terrain IF the combined unit weight of the stack is LESS then the supply limit of the province you are standing on.

Example: 3 units totalling 3000 on a 15 supply limit province can only hold 3+12 attached army without attached army fleeing the attrition.

3. You can give puppeteer stack a moving command THROUGH provinces the attached stack would take attrition (aka too few supply limit to sustain unit weight); what you gotta micro is that the TARGET province of the leading unit+attached army has to have more supply limit then the unit weight.


example: you can send 3k and a 27k ally (equalling 30 unit weight) army on the way to siege a 31 supply limit Ming province. On arrival, the attached stack will NOT flee to attrition, because unit weight is below supply limit. THIS is how you reliably siege with ally attached armies. Note that the attached stack won't flee to attrition WHILE ON WAY to the target province. They will arrive day later then you on any province, and re-attach until they reach destination.


4. Most reliabale way of letting allies attach is to click attach to ally stack, press detach button, then vink the tickbox for "units an attach" on and off. This RESETS ally movement order, and forces AI to recalculate. They will then usually reattach, UNLESS ally has occupied provinces or rebels. If so, then they might refuse until that situation is dealt with.

5. Subjects Always attach, and if they don't on supportive, then switch them from supportive into "do what you want" back to supportive.

It is really that simple.
 
Last edited:

hermithill

Major
62 Badges
Mar 5, 2013
547
279
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
Nice, thank you. I was missing at least the point 2.

3. You can give puppeteer stack a moving command THROUGH provinces the attached stack would take attrition (aka too few supply limit to sstain unit weight); what you gotta micro is that the TARGET province of the leading unit+attached army has to have more supply limit then the unit weight.

If you target a wrong province (supply limit too low), does the allied unit simply refuse to attach or does it detach on arrival?
 

atwix

Manager of Micro
53 Badges
Mar 2, 2014
8.560
4.241
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • BATTLETECH
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Empire of Sin
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
Nice, thank you. I was missing at least the point 2.



If you target a wrong province (supply limit too low), does the allied unit simply refuse to attach or does it detach on arrival?

the latter, they detach and flee attrition.
 

CplKatie

Field Marshal
36 Badges
Oct 31, 2009
5.092
1.448
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • BATTLETECH
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
They will not stay attached at the hip if they are in a manpower crisis and the two stacks would cause attrition. Instead they stay nearby. I typically have a special stack of just 1 or 2 regiments to have the vassals attach to and it works 99% of the time. Sometimes you have to move closer for them to decide to stick to the army cause you might have another army nearby that causes it to stay "close" to because of the vassal order to be supportive. Also they won't attach if the combined army has a cavalry penalty.