Friday Night NA Game VI: Rebirth

[Barca]

Looking at the event:

#The Repatriation of the Netherlands#
event = {

	id = 3171
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			event = 3159
			event = 3315
			event = 3316
		}
[B]		NOT = { event = 3935 }[/B]	
}
	random = no
	country = SPA
	name = "EVENTNAME3171"
	desc = "EVENTHIST3171"
	style = 3

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1648 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1649 }

	action_a ={			#The Netherlands is Subjugated#
		name = "ACTIONNAME3171A"
		command = { type = conversion which = 380 }
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 337 value = -30 }
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 338 value = -30 }
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 339 value = -30 }
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 340 value = -30 }
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 377 value = -27 }
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 378 value = -27 }
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 379 value = -27 }
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 380 value = -27 }
		command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = 3 }
		command = { type = treasury value = 300 }
		command = { type = stability value = 3 }
	}
}

Which I believe means event 3935 needs to not have fired for this one to fire. But looking in the save event 3935 has already fired, so as far as I can tell it shouldn't fire...

 

[Stonewall]

Having gone through the events, this is a problem based on how I realeased the Dutch in the original scenario start. In order for the Dutch to get their main events, I had to enable event 3900 (one of the prerequisites for 3935) in the event history. This is the event that fires when Holland declares its independence from Spain through revolt. Because Holland existed from scenario start, the event would not have fired. It makes sense now that the repatriation never fired. That sucks royally.

 

[unmerged(44386)]

That is probably enough to play. Is your location accurate, Australia? We've had people on dial up before, although their stability did suffer somewhat. You're more than welcome to come in and trt to sub with us if you want to.

Great, yes I live in darwin, Australia. Do you still start at 10:00 pm EST (12:30 pm Saturday for me) and play for about 4 hours?, if so I'll drop by Vnet about 5 minutes before commencement and see if you need a sub. I will also add the icqs of a couple of people I see in this thread. Cheers.

EDIT: Ok Stonewall thats 11:30am Sat for me, see you then.

 

[Stonewall]

Yes. Game starts at 10pm Eastern and runs until 2am. Normally we stop early if people get tired. Currently we're on EDT. Not sure if you guys do the daylight savings time or not. Check www.timeanddate.com so see the current time differential.

 

[unmerged(334)]

Yep, it was good game. I got a little angry with Frank at the end for saying that he will quit if OE joins the war. That is where I said that I will Quit if he asks for more than 2 provs which by the way is a 2nd point I am angr with him. When I DoW on him during his civil war I could take 3 provs and stab hit him if I wished to continue. we know that at that time 1/2 his kingdom was in rebel heands. Possible colapse of Austria was posible. But I took only 2 and asked only 2 right from the start. He did not repay this favor which I will remember.

btw next time some one will say that he quits for this or that, I will just logoff in the middle of the game and be done with this. Austria was wining the war and was Stab hiting me to -2, why would be it wrong for OE to help me?

 

[Frank XIV]

Blocking OE east expansion is a pain for Austria. Double it when russia and oe makes team. Triple it when oe dowed austria 6 times, took entire hungary during thé first session and even more when two of them done accordingly during civil wars.I was forced to annex german minors trying to avoiding poverty. You have to understand that I cannot continue to play if im bangganged repeaditly by two excessives power.
My reaction is more than normal here and I will hardly continue to stand on my positions.

 

[Barca]

Blocking OE east expansion is a pain for Austria. Double it when russia and oe makes team. Triple it when oe dowed austria 6 times, took entire hungary during thé first session and even more when two of them done accordingly during civil wars.I was forced to annex german minors trying to avoiding poverty. You have to understand that I cannot continue to play if im bangganged repeaditly by two excessives power.
My reaction is more than normal here and I will hardly continue to stand on my positions.

The reason you consistently have civil wars is because of the way you annexed all of northern germany. You're still huge compared to most austria's and will be getting your best leaders soon. Just look at the way you have grown each session. Since DSYoungesq subbed you and lost two provinces to me (I think) you've gained five, one, thirteen and three provinces which is an average gain of 5.5 european provinces per session. For comparison the OE has gained on average 2.5 provinces per session, which are generally much poorer (both in manpower and tax) than those north german provinces you've been taking. This boo-hoo poor austria can't continue to annex everything in sight is starting to wear thin.

Its a balancing act. I'm not going to let you crush Russia and take every province west of the Volga just because OE + Russia vs Austria isn't fair. If he starts a war against you and ends up losing I probably won't intervene. But if you attack him and are asking for three provinces within half a year of starting the war then I'm not going to sit idly by and watch you grow in power (as France and I have done since the beginning of the game).

 

[Frank XIV]

The reason you consistently have civil wars is because of the way you annexed all of northern germany. You're still huge compared to most austria's and will be getting your best leaders soon. Just look at the way you have grown each session. Since DSYoungesq subbed you and lost two provinces to me (I think) you've gained five, one, thirteen and three provinces which is an average gain of 5.5 european provinces per session. For comparison the OE has gained on average 2.5 provinces per session, which are generally much poorer (both in manpower and tax) than those north german provinces you've been taking. This boo-hoo poor austria can't continue to annex everything in sight is starting to wear thin.

Its a balancing act. I'm not going to let you crush Russia and take every province west of the Volga just because OE + Russia vs Austria isn't fair. If he starts a war against you and ends up losing I probably won't intervene. But if you attack him and are asking for three provinces within half a year of starting the war then I'm not going to sit idly by and watch you grow in power (as France and I have done since the beginning of the game).

I've not crushed Russia. We had good agreements and good terms.
How can I growth if you're always and just dowing me? What else? A chance that I signed a NAP for 50 years with you Barca.... Now I must deal with you because you are little stubborn since the beginning of the game toward me. You had intentions to make me your vassal and you're plans drowned. Be frank on this, it will not hurt you badly.

Secondly Russia began hostilities by dowing me in the back. We had good relations about Poland partitions and in general, except for Moldavia. He just caught what he planted. He has to learn about his actions and faced like a man the consequences without counting on OE or vice-versa.

It's fun to see that you're not mentionned that OE expansion to east is a true pain for me. Both of you never gone in war toward anyone else except one vs Spain and you still have an alliance. Not reasonnable.


Btw someone can post the map plz?????????????

 

[unmerged(11633)]

Frank, you need to learn to keep BB down when expanding (and or dealing with rebels). Diplo annexing costs 1 BB per province. Annexing a one prov AI minor militarily costs 5 BB- 3 for annexing them and 2 for the province (1 if it's a defensive war). The reason you're having civil wars is that your BB is so high from too many military annexations. Diplomacy is the way to go, even if it's expensive in terms of gifts etc, it keeps the BB down.

Russia may well soon run into BB problems.

Oh yes, you don't get civil wars if you're at +1 to +3 stability. But at 0, you do get them.

 

[Barca]

I've not crushed Russia. We had good agreements and good terms.

Because I threatened to intervene, otherwise you would have taken three provinces.

How can I growth if you're always and just dowing me? What else? A chance that I signed a NAP for 50 years with you Barca.... Now I must deal with you because you are little stubborn since the beginning of the game toward me.

Its not your natural right to expand. You get to expand after winning wars (which you did). When you win a war its your opportunity to expand. But don't expect everyone to be happy about a German superpower forming. People (like Russia) will see it as a threat when Austria holds every German province in the game plus the better Polish provinces.

You had intentions to make me your vassal and you're plans drowned. Be frank on this, it will not hurt you badly.

Yes, after my initial successes against you I planned on making you a sunni vassal if I managed to conquer most of Austria, and you were willing. But it wasn't something that I was dead set on achieving.

Secondly Russia began hostilities by dowing me in the back. We had good relations about Poland partitions and in general, except for Moldavia. He just caught what he planted. He has to learn about his actions and faced like a man the consequences without counting on OE or vice-versa.

Russia took Karkow and Weilopolska in the first war. You took those provinces back and Podlasia in the second war. Which is fair, and I didn't threaten to intervene that time. The third war you tried to take three more provinces from him, which was unacceptable to Constantinople. Hence me threatening to intervene if you pressed those demands.

It's fun to see that you're not mentionned that OE expansion to east is a true pain for me. Both of you never gone in war toward anyone else except one vs Spain and you still have an alliance. Not reasonnable.

I'm not sure what you mean about Ottoman expansion to the east, but Persia is offlimits so I can't grab those nice provinces (lucky for Christianity, that extra MP would've been nice early). I've never gone to war with Russia because I fought two wars against Poland early. Making another enemy would have been a really bad move at that time. And now I have nothing to gain from a war with Russia, plus we've had good relations the whole game.

 

[Frank XIV]

Oh yes, you don't get civil wars if you're at +1 to +3 stability. But at 0, you do get them.

Yeah I noticed it. Thanks for the tips around annexing militarly. I had lack of cash for gifts. Trying to put too much emphasis on gaining provinces in a only hope. I've always had problems to regularate AI annexation. With no NL, Prussia and Poland... all those lands were available. I wasn't have to wait for others to take those rich lands. OE never let me take hungary again.

I've been +3 and no civil war for about 10 years. I was thinking of a game bug with 80BB. A real chance that stab point costs me only 2,8k.

 

[Frank XIV]

Because I threatened to intervene, otherwise you would have taken three provinces. .

Since you've good terms. I know that already.

Its not your natural right to expand. You get to expand after winning wars (which you did). When you win a war its your opportunity to expand. But don't expect everyone to be happy about a German superpower forming. People (like Russia) will see it as a threat when Austria holds every German province in the game plus the better Polish provinces. .

I don't know. Maybe you're much well placed for talking for everyone since you're the GM. Hehe. But things are that I've just take what I wanted to acquire in order to establish a strong presence in Europe. Not a weak minor with no Hungary. As i said to you during the game you pushed me to extend within 50 years and gained forced because I was knowing of your intentions early 1600's.

Yes, after my initial successes against you I planned on making you a sunni vassal if I managed to conquer most of Austria, and you were willing. But it wasn't something that I was dead set on achieving..

I was willing maybe when you took me 5-6 hungarian provinces during the first session. I was looking for a long time. Having fun for being independant or being under Sunni controls?

Russia took Karkow and Weilopolska in the first war. You took those provinces back and Podlasia in the second war. Which is fair, and I didn't threaten to intervene that time. The third war you tried to take three more provinces from him, which was unacceptable to Constantinople. Hence me threatening to intervene if you pressed those demands.

Yeah we can talk about that one too. We signed peace and you took Priesburg and Istria from me where I fighted very well under circumstances with no leader and real forces. Civil war came. Russia dowed crappily few days after. I signed fast for those provinces.

I'm not sure what you mean about Ottoman expansion to the east, but Persia is offlimits so I can't grab those nice provinces (lucky for Christianity, that extra MP would've been nice early). I've never gone to war with Russia because I fought two wars against Poland early.

That's is the reason why I told as Austria that I hate this rule and was also not aware of this before we start this game. I prefer from you to have a better MP than being concentrated on one front exceptionnaly when Russia is your ally.

 

[unmerged(334)]

Frank I have no problem with you DoW on Russia. It is only fair since I did attack you first. I definitly do not have problem with you kicking my ass as well, you not the first one and it is part of the game. I DO have a problem with you saying that you will quit if 2nd power attacks you when you are at war with me.

This game is about fun and we do not try to destroy the other player nation and ruin the game. THis happend before with Poland anexing whole of Russia and the game did end early. This is why when I attacked you I asked only for 2 provs that you took from Poland 5-10 years before that. Almost whole of Austria was in rebel heands at that time and I could take 3 provs and stab hit you if I wished Austria to colapse. Barca also took only 2 provs from you not sure if he could take more but knowing his skill I am preaty confident he could. Ask Stony and others that we try to fight wars for fun bit not so much for huge land grab which would weeken the other too much.

2nd rule is balance of power. When I attacked Austria I fuly expected Spain to help you. (which he did) Frankly you should expect that when you attack me and start loosing OE may DoW on you anyway. I don't think Barca would do this as that would ruin Austria too much but you can't be sure of that.

As to aur good relations and agrements you talk about I have a little difrent view. When Poland was a player Russia could use Austria but I do not belive that we ever had a RM (or long time ago). When Poland become AI and Austria started to take Polish territory even before Russia then our relations changed. As a weeker power I had to use your civil war to slow you down and I need to keep Poland alive till i get my cores. If I let you anex it now I will loose too much.

So once more: I have no problem with you attacking me. I have a problem with you talking about quiting when OE gets involved. And if you continue to expand in Russia he will need to just to keep you in check and not to save my ass.

 

[Barca]

Since you've good terms. I know that already.

Because its not not in my interest to see a stronger austria

I don't know. Maybe you're much well placed for talking for everyone since you're the GM. Hehe. But things are that I've just take what I wanted to acquire in order to establish a strong presence in Europe. Not a weak minor with no Hungary. As i said to you during the game you pushed me to extend within 50 years and gained forced because I was knowing of your intentions early 1600's.

Firstly, I'm not GM, this game doesn't have a GM. I host the game, but all decisions are made by a basic majority. Secondly, no one is disputing your right to expand into germany, I'm just saying it will make others queasy when you have all of Germany, half of Poland and half of Italy.

Yeah we can talk about that one too. We signed peace and you took Priesburg and Istria from me where I fighted very well under circumstances with no leader and real forces. Civil war came. Russia dowed crappily few days after. I signed fast for those provinces.

My point was that you had already repaid russia for his attack on you. The second DoW was an act of aggression which I wasn't going to tolerate.

That's is the reason why I told as Austria that I hate this rule and was also not aware of this before we start this game. I prefer from you to have a better MP than being concentrated on one front exceptionnaly when Russia is your ally.

If it wasn't for this rule I would've annexed Persia and the Mughals by now and my MP would be pushing 450. I would be as concentrated west as I am now, with another 150 manpower to throw at you.

My original point which seems to have gotten a little lost was that Austria isn't half as weak as you make it seem. If it wasn't for your ridiculous BB then you would be undeniably the strongest power in the game. As it is now, you're powerful enough to beat any nation one on one as long as your stab doesn't go below +1.

 

[unmerged(11633)]

Frank can confirm this

- The province of Piedmont (id 404) is to be transferred from the Archduke of Austria to the Kingdom of France. Payment has already been made in game.

 

[Frank XIV]

Frank can confirm this

- The province of Piedmont (id 404) is to be transferred from the Archduke of Austria to the Kingdom of France. Payment has already been made in game.

Agreed and signed.

 

[unmerged(11633)]

AAR up.

All your Basques Belong to us!

 

[Stonewall]

Guys,

I've been out of town for the entire week on family business and due to unforseen circumstances, I won't be coming back home until next week. I'm noy going to be able to play tonight. Sorry its so late, but I didn't find out until a few minutes ago and its a 5 hour drive home from where I'm at.

I'd appreciate it if someone with ICQ access could find me a capable sub. In the alternative, I wonder if Habs might be willing to switch if we're slightly shorthanded.

Thanks.

Stonewall.

 

[unmerged(334)]

Actualy I may be out too..which sucks as next 3 weeks (starting next friday) I will be in Spain on vacation and will not be able to play. I will try to be there tonight but we have ppl coming over so I maybe too bussy to play..

If you find stable playr for Russia I am ok with becoming perm sub after my vacation..

 

[unmerged(25013)]

I am gone this Friday and next as well. Maybe call this week as our August week off?