Friday Night NA game, The Third Coming

[unmerged(25013)]

Well, the first night started out slow but was picking up towards the end, especially when I handed 5 OE's armies their asses in a row (and two were twice my size). Teach the savages to attack me in the mountains with cav.

Only real complaint is ALL the pausing. I know that sometimes people need a quick stoppage to do this or that but often there wasn't an "apparent" reason at all.

I would like to make it a rule that the reason for the pause be announced. Yes, that probably could get tedious but so is waiting for a battle, seige, or anything else to resume when it's been stopped for no apparent reason.

Can I get the last save from the session?

Thanks

P.S. Anyone gonna start an AAR thread?

 

[unmerged(334)]

I did not find this game very fun. I like game with balance of power and diplomacy. This was not it. This was a game of angry minors and their destruction by human players in 20 years.

I was attaked right after we started on Jan 2 by BB, Saxony, Magdeburg. I anext Magdeburg and Bohemia (my ally) took BB. I did not wish to anex one more minor to avoid high BB score. I took cash from BB. With my low man power it cost me 12$ to keep 18k army, so by the time war was over I had a loan. for next 3 years I was minting on mac to have cash for the bank. 5 days before that happend we reloaded one more time and POLAND (which has no CB on me thx to Dead) attacked. Lithuania joined and then Hungary attacked Bohemia (my ally) Thanks to moldavia I was able to take 4 provs from Poland (which it offerd and I was not about to refuse) Galitzen can be edited. Bohemia was kicking Hungary ass by that time but I could not get peace with it even when offerning Galitzen. During all these wars I had one leader that lived for less than a year and did not fight even one battle. What did make me angry was rebels. 3k army of rebs did defeat my 12k army with 6k cav. One time they did that when I was supported by additional 5k Bohemian army. (and yes I checked my army maintanance was at 100%) just before I left rebelion in Posen started with 8k, but I give up. It seemed that we will never stop playing (do to someone having a war at the time).

I like chalange but when rebs kick my ass and as a 4 prov minor (now 8 prov) I can have only 6k MP then this is more frustreting than fun.

 

[unmerged(25013)]

I think most of the issues people have with our current game goes back to money and men.

I have noticed that those NOT attacked right off had more fun.

Why? Money and men.

I am in the same boat as PP, I only have 7K MP, which makes a war difficult, especially if the AI attacks.

I found myself doing nothing early on because Albania had a ton of men, so know way to attack them, same with the OE. Plus, Hungary and Croatia dragged me into a war upon the start and than several after.

People voted down more start money which would have allowed people to either build up their small armies or invest in Diplomacy.

How many people complained about lag loans? How many games were ruined by it? More money....

Men? How can we fight even the one province minors when they have standing armies over 20K+, and how can we defend against aggresive majors when they bring wave after wave?

6K in armies was too small, and a limited treasury made that number worse.

Personally, I had some problems, had my troops stranded and disbanded as a result, had a lag loan, but recovered from it all.

I would like to continue with the current game, in my region some events took place that do not usually happen, the Byzantine Empire not only staved off the OE but took a minor in Italy (go figure), and I have fought the OE to manageable proportions.

However, in the interest of fun, perhaps we should do some editing? Maybe forgive people their current loans, so as to overcome a money/men shortage they were started with?

Just some random thoughts....

 

[Ccbasin]

Strix,
Good to hear that Bosnia is doing well.

All,
I think you guys have run into the same problems that all the minors games I have seen run into. Some people do well, others get it handed to them. I wish I knew what the solution might be. Balancing is a difficult act at best. Oh well, I will continue to lurk and I hope it goes well for you guys.

 

[unmerged(1104)]

I will again state I don't like editing loans. You can prevent lag loans. However I also want everyone to have fun. Here is what I would propose - take a look at each nation and edit what is needed to keep them viable.
NO MORE after this editing.

Navarra seem completely messed up I don't know what happened there. Lorraine is in reasonable shape - expect that loan - still has 4 provs don't know what all the whinning is about. I (Savoy) should have dropped Lorraine as an ally early on with the erratic play, but I am foolishly loyal.

I played the conservative route and took only Lombardia. Most of the extra money I could have had went down the Lorraine drain - may be shopping for new allies. Regardless I had a lot of fun - I like at this stage of the game the AI could have an advantage - and grabbing up several provs will have cause and effect - later this will be less of a factor.

I should have pushed Lorraine to take on France early - it is now cut off from much expansion there (I am not ) and Brabant has the early (and big) advantage of ownership of Northern France.

I like the 3 prov rule in peace treaties, if last night did not show you the benefits of this rule, nothing I say will change a mind.

The one thing I would say is 7 MP for Pommern seems very low, Bosnia seems about right for a normal game (non mod) - perhaps unfair in this one. Perhaps we should look at this, uncertain what can be done.

 

[Barca]

We could simply add some manpower to their starting provinces. A lot of these issues would have been picked up on if any of you had showed up for the trial run .

For Navarra I propose editing her inflation down to 2-5%, and restoring one or both of the provinces she lost.

The problem with lagloans is that it takes 1/6th to 1/10th of your monthly income, yes they can be avoided, but it really screws a country when they happen.

 

[unmerged(334)]

I do not wish to edit autoloans. I had one, I had to extend it (for Polands war) and then I had to take new loan on lower intrest to payoff the first loan. Just to keep paying for it put my inflation on 7% but I am still against editing it. I don't like editing at all during the game.

I think that we need to edit this whole scenario from the start. Remove CB's of big powers on minors (so we do not have war on Jan2) and improve relations a little. that would give us time to get ready, setup diplo and economy. MP has to be fixed too. I can't have 6k Pommerania of 4 provs vs. BB or Saxony (which I think have min of 10) from 1 prov. AI needs help that is true but I need to survive firs. After fixing all this. We can start from scratch. That way Hyz's TO, Navara or Lorigne will have a chance to play. And we all would know the rule of max 3 provs per war!!

 

[unmerged(25013)]

Well, it seems that several are less than happy with Friday's result, I know Spec will definately not be, and whomever takes over Lorraine.

Here is my proposal....

We ALL agree on a start date sometime in the next month when EVERYONE can be there.

I think it's important that everyone get a good start and subs don't seem to be thatt equipped to deal with a minor early on.

This way, we can restart, and no one will come back to a screwed up game.

Also, if we set the restart for a couple weeks from now, perhaps we can test several times before than? The usual Friday and maybe some other days as well?

That way, we tweak, fiddle, and do what needs to be done, to make most people happy.

Just some thoughts...

 

[daedalus]

PP,
Apart from you being dowed by BB, who else got DoWed from the start, and is unhappy with the results?. I know Mantua got Dowed by Austria, but the net gain was 3 same culture/religion provinces, so I am not sure barca is all unhappy with the results.

Specterx showed last week that he is more than capable of handling navarra, when he and esco partitioned the peninsula, and made it look easy.

I think that the current status of navarra is due to taking a bite too big too early. AFAIK, navarra DoWed france, but dragged the war too long. I think the same can be said of Lorraine and Friesland, right?
Pommern is in good shape on my view, and so are Mantua and Brabant. Catalunya manage to expand agressivelly, and got her little empire going. Savoy is doing good, and the only reason, IMHO is not doing better is the wars she fought alongside lorraine.
Finally moldavia and bosnia have survive nicely, althought both of them lost valuable resources due to Hungary signing peace agreements at the wrong time.

Certainly navarra should be edited back to her three initial provinces, cause right now she is unplayable. Lorraine is back to her strong starting 4 provinces, and a new player should be able to bring her back to power. About Friesland, I dont know her status yet. The TO, I need to hear from Hyz about his experience to know if she needs help. Could the TO be bigger should have participated in the "partition" of poland-lithuania? I think so. I think Hyz missed A great opportunity to consolidate power in the baltic. We (pommern and moldavia) certainly had the giant in her needs

 

[daedalus]

Just one thing - why is Moldavia and all her provinces Catholic, personally I would have thought being Orthodox would have been more to her advantage with all those Orthodox provinces around her.

Yes, the reason I edited her is because she was getting 1 dip a year, instead of the four all catholic countries were getting. Since in the start keeping good relationship with her neighboors is important, the dips are a most valuable resource.

 

[unmerged(334)]

We can play this one if you wish. I was just thinking that we should fix some problems. I think Lorraine has big inflation (even bigger then mine 7%) so that may need to be fixed too. I also left early, so I am not sure how is Pommeren now. I had rebels in Magdeburg and in Posen. It will also depend what is my MP with 7 provs. If it is 10 or 12 than there is no point of playing as I will be unable to have bigger army then rebels.

but we can try to finish this one too.

 

[unmerged(1104)]

Please note, next Friday I'll be on a plane. I'll post some instructions for a sub next week. Re the game: I'll go whatever the perm players decide.

 

[daedalus]

We can play this one if you wish. I was just thinking that we should fix some problems. I think Lorraine has big inflation (even bigger then mine 7%) so that may need to be fixed too. I also left early, so I am not sure how is Pommeren now. I had rebels in Magdeburg and in Posen. It will also depend what is my MP with 7 provs. If it is 10 or 12 than there is no point of playing as I will be unable to have bigger army then rebels.

but we can try to finish this one too.

Would not your MP go up as nationalism goes down? AFAIK, nationalism negatibelly affects you MP.

edt: I tried the savefile, althought your MP is 10 when I load the savefile, it goes upto 17 when 1 natiolism point goes down. Anyways, what do you thinnk the MP for other countries is right now?

 

[Barca]

I don't think its very fair to those of us who restrained ourselves and played well to restart a game just because a few people messed up, when playing with minors someone is bound to screw up. And subs aren't the problem, its getting good subs (drake's brabant is one of the stronger nations right now). Pommern's MP might have to be edited up some, someone with a save file can check on that. But IMO restarting because a few people messed up isn't fair to those of us who didn't try to expand too fast and didn't overextend ourselves.

 

[unmerged(334)]

If my MP will be 17 in few years I should be ok. No need to edit it. I was looking on 10 MP when I left and did not think it will go up..

 

[Specterx]

Drake played Brabant? Sod told me that he couldn't sub

Who played Navarra? Taking out Castille and Port was so easy in the test game, how exactly did Navarra manage to get destroyed?

 

[daedalus]

If my MP will be 17 in few years I should be ok. No need to edit it. I was looking on 10 MP when I left and did not think it will go up..

It will eventually go upto 23, without adding more provinces. I tested it, and is the value you will get in 10-15 years. I played the game with Pommenr until 1462 without any wars/investments. I think the value of 23 was reached around 1445.

 

[daedalus]

Drake played Brabant? Sod told me that he couldn't sub

Who played Navarra? Taking out Castille and Port was so easy in the test game, how exactly did Navarra manage to get destroyed?

I think navarra got in a long war against france and her minors. The war lasted for most of the session. By the end navarra was reduced to a one province minor, with gascone going to auvergne, and bearn going to Scotland(?!).

 

[daedalus]

Pommern's MP might have to be edited up some, someone with a save file can check on that. But IMO restarting because a few people messed up isn't fair to those of us who didn't try to expand too fast and didn't overextend ourselves.

Sorry to point the irony of this complain when bosnia's MP at full potential is 6 and Moldavia's 10

 

[WhiteHojo]

sounds like you boys had an interesting time to say the least..

some minor tweeking may be in order it seems...

the most mentioned:

1) tweek up starting manpower levels in each nations starting provinces (amount? 25%? 50%? 100%?)

2) remove any and all CBs nations have on the human starting provinces

3) tweek up the diplo relations b/t human nations & AI.... perhaps set em all at 0 then let the player make of em what he wants/can?

4) tweek up starting cash a tad? is 500 what ya'll use now? if so, perhaps an extra 250?

5) remove human nations from existing alliances? coupled w/4 & 3 this could allow the human to enter into whatever alliance he feels would best benefit him?

seems my schedule has bumped my free time on fridays back to a start of 9 pm central time.. so I'll check in on the Vnet at that time to see if subs are needed whenever I can

keep up the game boys