Fresh start : questions

[R.Graymarch]

Hello

I just started the game and was looking for a "quick questions" topic but could not find any in the first pages of this forum

So I started, inspired by DanIsStoned Crete tutorial. My goal is to unify Crete. I know that I could have chosen Rome but apparently, republics are a little complicated for a start. Egypt could be a good candidate but it's not as peaceful. So I chose Crete and especially Knossos (no mods)

In my first war, I went without my feud because his loyalty was not at 33. I paid him but apparently it needs time to build up. And when I wait, my allies call me to war so I have less control on what happens. Am I too impatient or unlucky? Edit: I just notice "dominating stance" to get an opinion boost with levies up /Edit

During a reload, I managed to be at war and it was going well, except my ally occupied the province so the only option in the peace deal was to give him the province, which is not something I want. Was I just unlucky? What does it depend on? First on the province (if that's the right name)? Higher troop numbers ?

Also I did not manage to get a general, it was my ruler and I could not change that (even at peace, with levies raised)

Thanks for your help and apologises if it's very basic questions

 

[Gremoleen]

I think you should keep trying Crete if it interests you, I'd say it's quite a good one to start with because once you take the whole island you will be relatively safe from attack and can mess about developing the island or carry on expanding, as you please.
Just get an ally on the island (maybe you already have feudatories,, I've only played in Britain), select your targets one by one, going for anyone without an alliance or with less than you have. Eventually, you'll have to turn on your former allies (if they're feudatories you can integrate them which is nicer) and finish off the conquest.
When I first started playing, I tried to find 'let's plays' or tutorials of the people I was playing as (I always do that) and I learnt some stuff about the mechanics but once you get over the initial steep learning curve it all comes together- best way to learn is to play and experiment, getting wiped out a few times in the process.

 

[R.Graymarch]

Thanks for all your replies

I'm a little stubborn so this week-end, I watched again the tutorial let's play in speed x1.5 and I took note of what happens. (don't stone me please^^)
Then I tried again with Knossos. It took me longer to declare the first war (my vassal was not loyal enough and I did not have 10 PI to change my stance...) so everyone was at war on the island which did not help
I conquered a city (I think it's the name) but, as in the tutorial my levies went down and I don't understand why

Before the war (military service enforced), maybe one year before
One city
Levies : 5 (1 Heavy infantry + 4 Bow)
Pops : 23 (1/10/7/0/5)
Current split in % : 4/43/30/0/21
Optimal split in % : 19/26/35/0/19

After the war (military service enforced)
Two cities
Levies : 4 (1+3)
Pops : 26 (6/5/10/1/4)
Split is only available at city level

Levies come from citizen+freemen, correct? (10+7<5+10, which could explain why I lose some), or do nobles also enter into accound. Is it also linked to the satisfaction of the pop?
Thanks

 

[olivenkranz]

Thanks for all your replies

I'm a little stubborn so this week-end, I watched again the tutorial let's play in speed x1.5 and I took note of what happens. (don't stone me please^^)
Then I tried again with Knossos. It took me longer to declare the first war (my vassal was not loyal enough and I did not have 10 PI to change my stance...) so everyone was at war on the island which did not help
I conquered a city (I think it's the name) but, as in the tutorial my levies went down and I don't understand why

Before the war (military service enforced), maybe one year before
One city
Levies : 5 (1 Heavy infantry + 4 Bow)
Pops : 23 (1/10/7/0/5)
Current split in % : 4/43/30/0/21
Optimal split in % : 19/26/35/0/19

After the war (military service enforced)
Two cities
Levies : 4 (1+3)
Pops : 26 (6/5/10/1/4)
Split is only available at city level

Levies come from citizen+freemen, correct? (10+7<5+10, which could explain why I lose some), or do nobles also enter into accound. Is it also linked to the satisfaction of the pop?
Thanks

the amount levied is the non-slave pops multiplied by the levy size, minimum being four, per region.

 

[R.Graymarch]

Thanks. I took an old save to continue.
My levy size is 17.5% and my pops are 45, of which 8 slaves (and 3 tribals), so 37 non slaves. My levies are 6.
37x17.5% = 6.475, rounded down I suppose?

Another question if I may. Do we have somewhere the potential levy of a foreign country (or do we need spy?)
I can see the fleet but I thought that, above, it was the number of levies but in fact it's the military tech level...

 

[olivenkranz]

Thanks. I took an old save to continue.
My levy size is 17.5% and my pops are 45, of which 8 slaves (and 3 tribals), so 37 non slaves. My levies are 6.
37x17.5% = 6.475, rounded down I suppose?

Another question if I may. Do we have somewhere the potential levy of a foreign country (or do we need spy?)
I can see the fleet but I thought that, above, it was the number of levies but in fact it's the military tech level...

The ai usually has a comparable levy size, so compare pop numbers.

 

[R.Graymarch]

Thanks
Little status. I'm missing 4 cities, 2 in a country of the West side and 2 in a country of the East side. Of course, to form Crete, I need one city to the West and one to the East. My main issue is that both countries are in the same defensive league with 4 external countries in Asia. Outside mercenaries, my only hope would be to upgrade my fleet in order to prevent external levies to land in Crete I guess. Right now, I have 20 boats, my targets have a total of 4 (2+2). External powers have 12 boats (3x4, because one is inland). I read on the wiki that a boat can carry one cohort so even with that I could manage it (my levy size is 15) but I would be more at ease if I could prevent them from landing Ideally, I occupy the 4 missing cities and as it's full occupation of 2 countries, I can make a peace deal to annex them even if I don't send any soldier in Asia?

My other issue is my king (3/2/3/8). He is now 48 years old. His primary heir is 20 year old with magnificent attributes : 0/2/1/0. His younger brother is 15 years old with 5/4/0/5. I know that I can change succession rules but cannot appoint my heir (is 15 year old too young?). I cannot enforce "divine status" and "my king" is supporting the "old" idiot (so sad...). So is there anything I can do to avoid this bad situation to come true when my monarch eventually dies?

 

[R.Graymarch]

Finally I went to war (with extra fleet) but the continental powers never show up, so it took time but I conquered all Crete in 474. So I could form it (yeah me)
My stupid heir also died, which is even better.
I think that I would try to expand in Greece (my culture group). First target, the Cyclades, I suppose.

 

[Ir0nSlug]

Finally I went to war (with extra fleet) but the continental powers never show up, so it took time but I conquered all Crete in 474. So I could form it (yeah me)
My stupid heir also died, which is even better.
I think that I would try to expand in Greece (my culture group). First target, the Cyclades, I suppose.

In my case too the continental allies of my target never showed up, maybe it's an AI limitation, in all Paradox games it seems to struggle with naval invasion. After taking hold of crete, the difficult part just starts I think, since you have not a lot of possible expansion before stepping on the tows of some Major Power. Macedonia is likely to blob into Greece. Maybe you have a shot at building a thalassocracy. God speed!

 

[R.Graymarch]

In my case too the continental allies of my target never showed up, maybe it's an AI limitation, in all Paradox games it seems to struggle with naval invasion.

To begin with, I put some of my fleet in blocade. But after I lost some of it (elsewhere) to pirates I believe, I withdrew my fleet to focus on Crete and they never came. Strange
For the rest, Cyclades should be OK than I will try Achaia.
Strange things happen after I formed Crete: I had some super surplus (3 items) so people wanted to import it. That was new to me!

To be fair, I'm a little lost with PI, the points went up and I'm not sure how to use them. Same with deities, I'm not too keen on changing them, or with stab at 50-60... Seems to me that I'm missing opportunities because I don't know/don't dare what to do with them. Could be the same with money, I got 2-300 gold and I wonder if buildings is the best way to go to build a powerbase. My income is OK because I deleted every fort in Crete, except in Knossos where I have a level 2.
I need to find how to unlock legions. I imagine that if I have 2 provinces, the game changes as I need to appoint a governor etc etc

 

[Ir0nSlug]

To begin with, I put some of my fleet in blocade. But after I lost some of it (elsewhere) to pirates I believe, I withdrew my fleet to focus on Crete and they never came. Strange
For the rest, Cyclades should be OK than I will try Achaia.
Strange things happen after I formed Crete: I had some super surplus (3 items) so people wanted to import it. That was new to me!

To be fair, I'm a little lost with PI, the points went up and I'm not sure how to use them. Same with deities, I'm not too keen on changing them, or with stab at 50-60... Seems to me that I'm missing opportunities because I don't know/don't dare what to do with them. Could be the same with money, I got 2-300 gold and I wonder if buildings is the best way to go to build a powerbase. My income is OK because I deleted every fort in Crete, except in Knossos where I have a level 2.
I need to find how to unlock legions. I imagine that if I have 2 provinces, the game changes as I need to appoint a governor etc etc

Don't sweat it, except if you really want to min-max deities are not that important, at least at the start of the game. It can become interesting to switch for deities you have holy sites for.

PI main use to me are:
- Switch diplo stance, I generally use Mercantile to get money + good relations and Appeasing when high on aggressive expansion. Bellicose can be useful before some big war for the war score / claim generation.
- Change province focus (in governor provinces it generate tyranny, but it's sometime necessary to avoid catastrophe caused by a greedy guy)
- Fabricate claims
- Build cities
- Sacrifice when low on stability (like after passing a law/changing god)

To make legions, you got to research in Martial 4 inventions, it's in the left tree. Then you have to enact a law (Cost PI and stab). But before that focus on making money, since a relevant legion will cost several hundreds gold to recruit and 10+ gold monthly. When you do, make sure to have enough donkeys (I'd say at least one for every 10 cohorts) and engineers (10% to have a bonus to siege), as troops use what your civ is best for (I think for greeks it's heavy inf.) and some flank units like light cavs or horse archers. Heavy cav is not meant to be used on flanks, it's a better version of the heavy inf so front line. You can update your legion composition at any time. Also legion can build roads, which is extremely cool.

You will need big fleets I think. I like to have at least 2, one with heavy ships for attack/siege/transport, on with light ships to hunt pirates and move quickly where needed. In case of grave danger, I merge them. you need to upgrade ports to get bigger ships.

The best way to make money is to export. Export all you can (except capital surplus oc). In the trade tab there is an "Accept all demands" option, it won't touch to your capital surplus, so I'll advise to activate it.

To produce more, try to unlock forges (it needs "blacksmith apprentice" in the central tree of martial inventions), it also gives you a ton of research, great if not best building. Get tons of slaves, you can disable slaves promotion to keep them working, maybe it's a good idea dunno. In the territory view, hover your mouse over the good it produces, it will tell you how many slaves you need to produce one. Cities seem to produce 2 by default, so they are better for everything that is not food (cities on food territory will replace it by another good, you then risk to be low on food).

Tax doesn't make a lot of money in my impression, so I don't build tax offices.

 

[R.Graymarch]

Thanks a lot for this long post, it helps a lot
I played a little and conquered most of Cyclades (one remaining nation is a vassal of Egypt which is a little complicated^^)

I'm a little confused about culture. I focused on the "hellenistic group" in order to have less issues. But it turns out that, if all my POPs are hellenistic, my primary culture is from Crete (makes sense) and then I have Egean, Macedonian, Athenian, Thessalian which are not integrated (even if in the same group)
I looked at the culture tab but could not find any info on how to integrate culture (from same group as my primary). Is it "passive" due to building? Or am I missing something?
And what are your suggestion in my case?
Thanks!

 

[IsaacCAT]

Thanks a lot for this long post, it helps a lot
I played a little and conquered most of Cyclades (one remaining nation is a vassal of Egypt which is a little complicated^^)

I'm a little confused about culture. I focused on the "hellenistic group" in order to have less issues. But it turns out that, if all my POPs are hellenistic, my primary culture is from Crete (makes sense) and then I have Egean, Macedonian, Athenian, Thessalian which are not integrated (even if in the same group)
I looked at the culture tab but could not find any info on how to integrate culture (from same group as my primary). Is it "passive" due to building? Or am I missing something?
And what are your suggestion in my case?
Thanks!

Cultures in the same culture group are not integrated unless you give them citizen status in the culture tab. As any other culture. The only difference is the modifiers they have as being a culture in your own culture group.

 

[R.Graymarch]

Thank you for the answer. So same culture group has "just" a bonus compared to other. I can see that my integrated primary culture has +30% happiness while others (same group but unintegrated) have +20% only

I went a little further and all my secondary cultures are setup at "freemen" status. If I understand correctly "citizen or noble" status would make them integrated (it takes time), so more happiness for them, but less for other integrated culture. If my understanding is correct, an integrated culture cannot be assimilated.

As integrated culture fuels my levies (legions too?) and research, it's important to have integration. However, it's a waste on small pops because of the malus to other integrated cultures. One could say also that "same culture group" are easier to appease so it may not be worth integrating compared to "foreign" groups. What is at stake also is that limiting the status to slaves, freemen, citizens or nobles could boost a part of your country (money for slaves, research for nobles etc etc). I know also that you could "unintegrate" some population afterwards

Right now, my primary culture is 165 pops. Other culture (same group) are 58/1/3/1. I don't think it's worth integrating the three last ones. However the 58 pop (egean) could really boost my country

 

[IsaacCAT]

Thank you for the answer. So same culture group has "just" a bonus compared to other. I can see that my integrated primary culture has +30% happiness while others (same group but unintegrated) have +20% only

Being of your culture group has a bonus on your overall happiness as you can see the Hebrew have 12% culture happiness while the Athenian have 20% because they are from your same culture group.

The Thesallian are integrated (citizen) and have a 30%. However, every culture you integrate will increase -4% de penalty of integrated cultures.

You can increase your integrated cultures by using national ideas or inventions like:

Or you can increase the non integrated cultures of not your culture group, for example: (beware that the modifier name is confusing)

But do not confuse with the modifiers that increase happiness to cultures that are part of your culture group, as they are not applied to the former and only to the cultures of your culture group that are non integrated:

I went a little further and all my secondary cultures are setup at "freemen" status. If I understand correctly "citizen or noble" status would make them integrated (it takes time), so more happiness for them, but less for other integrated culture. If my understanding is correct, an integrated culture cannot be assimilated.

Correct, Integrated cultures do not assimilate. The time to integrate a culture can be affected by culture decisions before integrating that culture, for example:

As integrated culture fuels my levies (legions too?) and research, it's important to have integration. However, it's a waste on small pops because of the malus to other integrated cultures. One could say also that "same culture group" are easier to appease so it may not be worth integrating compared to "foreign" groups. What is at stake also is that limiting the status to slaves, freemen, citizens or nobles could boost a part of your country (money for slaves, research for nobles etc etc). I know also that you could "unintegrate" some population afterwards

Legions and levies, yes. Research is produced by Citizens and Nobles. When you demote a culture, their nobles and citizens will demote with time, so your research will start to decrease as their pops demote to freemen or slaves.

Do not integrate to nobles, it is a bug, you will get the same nobles by integrating to citizen without the malus on happiness.

Integration can be used to appease, but it is mostly done to increase your levy/legion size. Another interest for integrating cultures is military traditions. In Vanilla to access other military traditions trees you need a minumum of those culture pops:

Right now, my primary culture is 165 pops. Other culture (same group) are 58/1/3/1. I don't think it's worth integrating the three last ones. However the 58 pop (egean) could really boost my country

58 is not a significat number although compared to 165 seems a lot. With a levy size multiplier of 10% if you substract slaves from 58, you may be getting only 58 - 20 = 38 * 0,10 = 3.8 levied pops or 4 cohorts (2k troops). You are better off using mercenaries at this stage of the game.

 

[R.Graymarch]

Thanks, that's a lot of helpful information ^^

I read that "integrate to nobles" give a -5% penalty happiness to other integrated cultures (instead of -4% for citizens) but in reality there is a bug. Keeping at citizen level will provide same bonus for research, then?

About your last paragraph, so your advice is keeping the 58 unintegrated. With time, they will assimilate, I hope.
Regarding mercenaries, my issue is that my income is quite low (+0.54) compared to before (+2.9). Possibly because I built a lot of expensive boats (I upgraded a harbour to level 3 so that I'm sure to rule the sea) and also capture some. Also I kept a level 2 fort (it was 3) in Delos, as it's the main territory of the province. I may recall also that I lost some import route during the war, which did not help. My issue is that, with this amount of cash, I cannot use mercenaries.

 

[Ir0nSlug]

About your last paragraph, so your advice is keeping the 58 unintegrated. With time, they will assimilate, I hope.
Regarding mercenaries, my issue is that my income is quite low (+0.54) compared to before (+2.9). Possibly because I built a lot of expensive boats (I upgraded a harbour to level 3 so that I'm sure to rule the sea) and also capture some. Also I kept a level 2 fort (it was 3) in Delos, as it's the main territory of the province. I may recall also that I lost some import route during the war, which did not help. My issue is that, with this amount of cash, I cannot use mercenaries.

You're not asking me but yes I'd say it is not worth, you will get only 2k soldiers of dubious quality. Except if you know that it is a big culture group and that you will conquer more of this culture's pops in the near future. For instance, I had a few punic pops in my empire, so before going to war with carthage I integrated them, this way, as soon as I took territories from carthage I got immediately a lot of integrated pops. Also, nothing prevents you to change it, I integrated etruscans in the beginning of my game to get a lot more soldiers and research, than later on dumped them to slavery to make room for other cultures. It's a bit unrealistic how they took it without saying anything, but eh...

Doing so I found something a bit exploity : if you raise a legion in a region (based on the number of integrated pops) then disfranchise some culture, it will have no impact on your legion size, even if it become oversized. My Legio Italia was 81 cohorts out of 65 for decades without any probelm.

You can fix up your treasury with many things (laws, trade routes, techs) the most obvious is the Mercantile diplo stance, that bumps your commercial income. If you export much more than you import, it may be worth putting the trade policy on the left to get a bonus to export, also set the fort maintenance to low and eventually the fleet one too if you are not bothered by pirates. Forts are expansive when you are not a big country, if the province is loyal, I usually only keep them in the capital and some strategic locations. Check your ruler governor policies too, there are some that focus on making money.

Mercs are expansive early game, but they generally come with good commanders and it doesn't reduce your research like levies.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Thanks, that's a lot of helpful information ^^

I read that "integrate to nobles" give a -5% penalty happiness to other integrated cultures (instead of -4% for citizens) but in reality there is a bug. Keeping at citizen level will provide same bonus for research, then?

Yes, nobles will promote in those integrated cultures up to citizens the same as if they were integrated to nobles.

About your last paragraph, so your advice is keeping the 58 unintegrated. With time, they will assimilate, I hope.
Regarding mercenaries, my issue is that my income is quite low (+0.54) compared to before (+2.9). Possibly because I built a lot of expensive boats (I upgraded a harbour to level 3 so that I'm sure to rule the sea) and also capture some.

While you are not at war or chasing pirates, decrease your navy maintenance to 0.

Also I kept a level 2 fort (it was 3) in Delos, as it's the main territory of the province. I may recall also that I lost some import route during the war, which did not help. My issue is that, with this amount of cash, I cannot use mercenaries.

To increase your monies I suggest switching to export bonus in the economy tab and start investing in the left civic tree for inventions. Later on, you will want to found many cities, build foundries, move slaves and do what we call ‘city skylines’ in I:R: growing your cities by moving slaves in, increasing your trade goods, research, manpower, taxes and levy size.

 

[Nuclear Elvis]

For the OP and the early question about getting more income earlier in the game - a technique is to hyper-specialize your capital province improvements all toward Imports, as you want pairs that provide global/all kingdom wide buffs for your people. Many of these have either direct or tertiary effects to improve upon population, population output, and ultimately gold because you increase income from new imports plus your improved kingdom from buffs has all those tertiary effects working for you. Unless you're doing a niche achievement run (such as raising fort level for Armenia achievement), there's not much motivation to improve your capitol for anything except yet more imports. I'm sure you'll hear a different strategy from someone here, but I've almost exclusively geared my capitols in I:R for imports. Just note the valuation differences also - you'll get more coin for certain imported goods compared to others. And in some cases, depending on your situation, you may want to stack multiples of the same imports just so the buffs stack up.

 

[R.Graymarch]

Thanks again for all the input

I played a little (year 490) and my first monarch finally died (after having many negative traits for too long). I followed your advices and did not integrate any culture. My integrated pop is now 189 and all others are 50+2+1+1+1. I made a war to get the Cyclades mission; Egypt was involved but did not much after my fleet won. So I could manage the mission which gave an instant assimilation of culture to my primary, which helped a lot. In my non-Crete provinces, I put the governor policy to "accelerate assimilation". I have 24 territories, one short for the next level....

I managed to get my research for "workshop" which I built in my capital (with mill and court of law), I also find the "low maintenance" for fleet. Regarding trade routes, I did what I could but I was at the top of pop and building in Knossos (I used a research for more buildings and then made an aqueduct)

I should turn now to continental Greece to follow my conquest. It may not so easy as some countries are friends or vassals of Macedonia or Egypt.

 

[R.Graymarch]

I tried to continue but I'm in a kind of deadlock. If I attack continental Greece (with my ally Epirus), then Sparta attacks me (bringing Egypt and Macedonia against me). I reload several times, changed the first war but it seems that IA is waiting for the opportunity to attack me. I could do a preventive attack but I fear that Sparta+allies are way too strong.
So improve my economy, build a war chest to get mercs? Conquer on the coast of modern Turkey?