French revolution with 1773 start.

[Nikolai II]

Unless France gets into war with England during the period 1775-1781 there won't be any French revolution, only constitutional monarchy.

Since 1773 is the scenario immediately preceeding the revolution I for one would like it if it was somewhat likely to happen..



Optional solutions:

1) Begin scenario with France in the same war as USA against ENG. Increase startdate for event FRA 3142 #Necker announce the Budget Deficiet# to 1774.

2) Begin scenario for France with aristocracy 8.

3) Reduce trigger for event FRA 3144 #The General Estates# to Aristocracy 4+ (from 6+)

4) Change event FRA 3142 #Necker announce the Budget Deficiet# to be either current trigger OR "exists = USA".



Motivations

1) Makes it likely that ENG and FRA will be at war during the timeframe of event 3142, giving that the option of increasing aristocracy enough to trigger General estates.

2) Means that general estates at least will trigger even if no ENG-FRA war, making powerful (historical) revolution har to avoid.

3) Means that general estates at least will trigger even if no ENG-FRA war, giving the smaller revolution at least.

4) Since France sent loads of cash to help form the USA - somewhat bad solution though - probably best ignored. Maybe 4b, change from war ENG-FRA to "atwar = yes" for FRA.

I'd suggest solution 1 or 3, with 2 being the option if no event files should be modified. 4 should be ignored, but 4b is an option

 

[AndrewT]

Looking for other comment on this ...

 

[Smirfy]

Would like to have one for whatever scenario!

 

[Nikolai II]

Would like to have one for whatever scenario!

Well, you can always get the puny one (constitutional monarchy) since the triggers were ripped from that.

The problem with most scenarios is that they give a lot of options (and time) for AI to screw around with sliders by random events and by ahistorical event-choices (as well as events that are hard to trigger and can be missed out on).

But by 1773 the stage was pretty much set - so much that it at least should be likely that there is a real one..

As is now the event series goes by the premise that it was french warfare against the english that busted their finances enough for 'general estates' and then revolution.
But France cannot join the US war since the US (at war) would have to invite it - and france begins allied with spain...

I think I prefer my option #1, adding France like this

   war = { 
        id = { type = 9430 id = 1 } 
        date = { year = 1768 month = january day = 0 } 
        enddate = { year = 1772 month = december day = 30 } 
        attackers = { 
            id = { type = 9430 id = 2 } 
            type = war 
            expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 } 
            participant = { USA [i]FRA[/i] } 
        } 
        defenders = { 
            id = { type = 9430 id = 3 } 
            type = war 
            expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 } 
            participant = { ENG SHA } 
        } 
    }

in 1773.inc and then extend startdate for event 3144 (Necker) to be 1774, so unless war is short n' sweet then Frances limited coffers will feel the pain.

What would your vote be for 1773 solution, Smirfy (and other readers)?

 

[Smirfy]

What would your vote be for 1773 solution, Smirfy (and other readers)?

I'm not really an expert on the mechanics of events but would welcome any event/events that give a French Revolution. My point before on a previous bug thread about the nessecity of a violent revolution for the gaining of revolutionary leaders is even more nessecary for 1773.

There is no doubting the impact of the War on France, They freed America, but once again their plutocracy lay in ruins, ruins I might add without any representation; so limited influence ie high aristocracy must be an important trigger.

This opens several debates about the intensity of revolts starting with the USA, I don't believe the USA should be a neccesity to the French revolution for reasons to do with above statement, but I do believe that the USA should be in the high 90% + region of occuring

Anyway back to France, personally speaking, I would like 1773 to make the revolution in France inevitable, as it seems the whole point of playing this scenario is the revolution. I am trying to imagine the scale of victory over the British and the social and economic change required to prevent revolution but cannot forsee any reaching the practical level required to prevent this epochal event.

 

[Nikolai II]

Napoleon appears even if you get minimal revolution ('Archduke of Corsica') but you miss out on the mood swings of the French Revolutionary State (and the snazzy tricolore).

Sure, for all scenarios changes could be made to the event triggers, major revolution could be like now (USA free + aristo 8) OR aristo 10, minor revolution could be as now (USA free + aristo 6) OR aristo 8-9. But that can be taken to another thread (or you could bump your old thread.

-

Back to 1773, the easiest way to guarantee (barring random events) a revolution of any kind would be to increase france's starting aristocracy by 3, to 8. Actually this won't give revolution if a)no war with UK and b)at least small social reforms in #The General Estates#.

If starting aristocracy would be 9 then large reforms and no war with UK would be necessary to get only 'revolts' and no 'revolution', but that would be a reasonable way out for the AI IMHO.

Guaranteeing a violent revolution (barring random events) is impossible since the #Economic and Social Reforms# in #The General Estates# gives -3 aristo, centralization, serfdom and + 3 inno.

But increasing starting aristocracy to 9 would mean flagchange would be the norm, not the exception and IMHO would be the minimum solution for the 1773 scenario..

 

[BiB]

But increasing starting aristocracy to 9 would mean flagchange would be the norm, not the exception and IMHO would be the minimum solution for the 1773 scenario..

That'd inderdeedy be nice. Then tehre's at least one scenario where the French revolution actually tends to happen

 

[Smirfy]

Looks like we are getting a bit of consensus here and not just for 1773, would it be possible to formulate a path for the rest of the scenarios that would make the revolution 80% likely.

If we made the trigger aristocracy we could keep events pushing that way.

 

[Nikolai II]

Looks like we are getting a bit of consensus here and not just for 1773, would it be possible to formulate a path for the rest of the scenarios that would make the revolution 80% likely.

If we made the trigger aristocracy we could keep events pushing that way.

Possibly, but I'd like a full consensus and a ruling on 1773 first
(There are so many things that can happen if the revolution is farther away that it would take a lot of thinking, tweaking and testing)

What is your take on which solution would be beneficient for 1773, I've said what I think the options are and I think BiB just voted for the minimal solution of Aristo 9..

 

[BiB]

Yup. Makes sense, is accurate and simple.

France in general gets too low aristocracy (which doesn't help the revolution in any scenario).

 

[Smirfy]

Yup. Makes sense, is accurate and simple.

France in general gets too low aristocracy (which doesn't help the revolution in any scenario).

Agree totaly with this

 

[AndrewT]

the minimal solution of Aristo 9

OK, I've implemented that for 1773, anyway. Thanks.