"French Commune" doesn't make sense

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ObssesedNuker

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I always saw it as the French communists naming it as a means of trying to tie themselves to the Paris Commune. Something like "We are the inheritance of the progressives of the Paris Commune and as such, ALL of France is one big commune!" or something.
 
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I'm not sure about it but the real soviets - the autonomous peoples' and workers' councils - were quickly silenced by the bolchevik government. I know there is a famous anecdote (through I don't remember it correctly) where after the revolution a soviet rebelled because they wanted to act like a real soviet (local decisions by the people) and Lenin sent the army against them. And Stalin was even worse when his power was challenged, so I don't think that a stalinist party would really call for soviets apart to use their heritage for propaganda. And I don't remember seeing the term soviets used in French Communist Party's rhetoric, but I might be wrong.


Haha this is absolutely true! But, in my case, aside the fact that I'm quite fond of history and politically a monstrous leftist, I'm also working on a dissertation about the "geopolitics of cinema in the intellectuals' and professionals' discourses in the french press and radio after the WW2" for my master's degree, and since something like half the journals, newspapers and intellectuals were communists or at least socialists, I have a good idea of what is the background around 1940 to 1960.

I'll try to find some archives regarding the communist party programme in the 1930' on online archive websites this evening in order to have a confirmation of it and maybe some clues about what they precisely wanted to do at the time, but I'm pretty sure that, at least, they didn't called for a french commune.
Take this to r/socialism. They can adjudicate, but considering there is a legacy of "communards," I think this will be fine as a representation for a country that never existed.
 
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I'm french, "french commune" sound nice, it makes french communsit gouvernement sound different than other communist, with all their worker's thing and democratic republic stuff in their title. Because we french love to be different so we can be pretentious about it you know.
 
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As a French "French Commune" sounds weird. I don't know why but I can say that "Commune" wouldn't be used to describe a communist state. Furthermore "Commune" in French is also the name of an administrative division. You know like Region / Department / Canton / Commune
In my opinion something like: "French Democratic Republic", "French Socialist Republic" , "People's Republic of France" or "French People's Republic" makes much more sense.

Just make a mod and we'll be happy xD
 
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maxresdefault.jpg

It would be great to see this flag made into the French communist flag rather than the current ahistorical and awkward red star flag.
 
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ecololuc

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Non, non et encore non. French Commune est totalement valable. Comme martelé plusieurs fois, c'est une référence à la Commune de Paris. Rien à voir avec l'aspect administratif de la chose.

Tout comme il y a eu une Commune de Paris, il peut y avoir une Commune de France. Si c'est aujourd'hui énormément connoté, ça n'a pas toujours été le cas. Tu peux jeter un coups d'oeil sur le site du CNRTL.

Dans ce cas, c'est une forme de gouvernement. L'aspect hautement symbolique de la Commune pour les communistes rends ce nom d'autant plus problable. Au pire, si ça te fais tiquer, Union of French Communes, ou quelque chose du même genre. Mais moi ça ne me pose aucun problème.

tl;dr : He's wrong.


Ton lien ne confirme rien du tout. Il y a en effet eu une Commune de Paris, une Commune de Lyon et bien d'autres, mais parler de Commune de France n'aurait politiquement aucun sens puisque le principe même de la commune est d'être une entité de taille réduite. Les premiers socialistes étaient pour une fédération de communes libres, mais une commune de France n'aurait rien signifié à leurs yeux puisque le but d'une commune est de pouvoir gérer les choses de manière locale dans chaque commune.

Ensuite, visiblement ici on ne parle pas de "French Commune" dans le sens "Commune Française" mais bien de "Communauté Française" ou de "Commun Français". Et ça n'évoque absolument pas un nom de gouvernement.

Enfin, peu importe l'aspect symbolique de la Commune, le PCF des années 30 n'aurait JAMAIS utilisé un nom pareil, il n'aurait même pas fait référence à la Commune puisque sa doctrine idéologique en était à l'opposé, et qu'il y avait à l'époque une référence bien plus évidente, accessible et partagée : l'Union Soviétique, alias le paradis sur Terre dans l'esprit des gens de gauche.

Je suis idéologiquement et sentimentalement bien plus proche de la Commune que du PCF stalinien de l'époque, mais HOI est censé être une simulation historique, un minimum de crédibilité me semble nécessaire.
__________

Your link doesn't confirm anything. There was indeed a Paris Commune, a Lyon Commune and other ones, but to talk about French Commune (in that way) would politically have no sense since the principle of the commune itself is to be a small entity. The first socialists were for a federation of free communes, but a French Commune would have meant nothing to their eyes since the purpose of a commune is to enable managing things in a local way.

Next, "French Commune" seems to not have the meaning "Commune Française" but "Communauté Française" or "Commun Français". And it doesn't evoke a government name in french.

Finally, no matter how symbolic the Commune is, the 1930' FCP would NEVER have used such a name, and wouldn't even have refered to the Paris Commune since its doctrine was at the opposite, and there was at the time a more obvious, accessible and shared reference: the Soviet Union, aka paradise on Earth in the mind of leftist people.

I'm ideologically and sentimentally bound much closer to the Commune than the 1930' stalinist FCP, but HOI is supposed to be an historical simulation, and a minimum of credibility seems necessary to me.
 
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Ton lien ne confirme rien du tout. Il y a en effet eu une Commune de Paris, une Commune de Lyon et bien d'autres, mais parler de Commune de France n'aurait politiquement aucun sens puisque le principe même de la commune est d'être une entité de taille réduite. Les premiers socialistes étaient pour une fédération de communes libres, mais une commune de France n'aurait rien signifié à leurs yeux puisque le but d'une commune est de pouvoir gérer les choses de manière locale dans chaque commune.

Ensuite, visiblement ici on ne parle pas de "French Commune" dans le sens "Commune Française" mais bien de "Communauté Française" ou de "Commun Français". Et ça n'évoque absolument pas un nom de gouvernement.

Enfin, peu importe l'aspect symbolique de la Commune, le PCF des années 30 n'aurait JAMAIS utilisé un nom pareil, il n'aurait même pas fait référence à la Commune puisque sa doctrine idéologique en était à l'opposé, et qu'il y avait à l'époque une référence bien plus évidente, accessible et partagée : l'Union Soviétique, alias le paradis sur Terre dans l'esprit des gens de gauche.

Je suis idéologiquement et sentimentalement bien plus proche de la Commune que du PCF stalinien de l'époque, mais HOI est censé être une simulation historique, un minimum de crédibilité me semble nécessaire.
__________

Your link doesn't confirm anything. There was indeed a Paris Commune, a Lyon Commune and other ones, but to talk about French Commune (in that way) would politically have no sense since the principle of the commune itself is to be a small entity. The first socialists were for a federation of free communes, but a French Commune would have meant nothing to their eyes since the purpose of a commune is to enable managing things in a local way.

Next, "French Commune" seems to not have the meaning "Commune Française" but "Communauté Française" or "Commun Français". And it doesn't evoke a government name in french.

Finally, no matter how symbolic the Commune is, the 1930' FCP would NEVER have used such a name, and wouldn't even have refered to the Paris Commune since its doctrine was at the opposite, and there was at the time a more obvious, accessible and shared reference: the Soviet Union, aka paradise on Earth in the mind of leftist people.

I'm ideologically and sentimentally bound much closer to the Commune than the 1930' stalinist FCP, but HOI is supposed to be an historical simulation, and a minimum of credibility seems necessary to me.
Why wouldn't Stalinists use the legacy of other Marxist traditions?
 
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Why wouldn't Stalinists use the legacy of other Marxist traditions?
Well, the Commune was mostly "inspired" by others' writings, not by Marx, but it's true that some of Marx's writings talk about it (in a very positive way). However, marxism-leninism and stalinism wiped out writings that didn't fit well in their ideology. Some of Marx's texts (the ones which didn't fit) have been translated into russian very very lately and completely ignored in the official doctrine. A lot of other communists, socialists and anarchists movements have worked with them and proposed different things through.

But if Maurice Thorez' French Party Communist have seized the power, honestly, there would have been no chance for them to name their government the French Commune, nor to make up a government that could be called a French Commune by anyone.
 
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Ton lien ne confirme rien du tout. Il y a en effet eu une Commune de Paris, une Commune de Lyon et bien d'autres, mais parler de Commune de France n'aurait politiquement aucun sens puisque le principe même de la commune est d'être une entité de taille réduite. Les premiers socialistes étaient pour une fédération de communes libres, mais une commune de France n'aurait rien signifié à leurs yeux puisque le but d'une commune est de pouvoir gérer les choses de manière locale dans chaque commune.

Oui, les premiers socialistes. Pour les suivants, la Commune était une référence. Quand ils parlaient de la Commune, ils pensaient bien entendu à celle de Paris, pas à l'entité administrative. Encore pour ceux d'aujourd'hui c'est le cas, et j'en ai côtoyé beaucoup, des marxistes aux maoïstes, en passant par les conseillistes et les marxiste-léninistes.

Ensuite, visiblement ici on ne parle pas de "French Commune" dans le sens "Commune Française" mais bien de "Communauté Française" ou de "Commun Français". Et ça n'évoque absolument pas un nom de gouvernement.

Tu te bases sur quoi pour dire ça exactement ? Parce-que sinon ça veut strictement rien dire.

Enfin, peu importe l'aspect symbolique de la Commune, le PCF des années 30 n'aurait JAMAIS utilisé un nom pareil, il n'aurait même pas fait référence à la Commune puisque sa doctrine idéologique en était à l'opposé, et qu'il y avait à l'époque une référence bien plus évidente, accessible et partagée : l'Union Soviétique, alias le paradis sur Terre dans l'esprit des gens de gauche.

Osef que sa doctrine était opposée. Cela donne juste de la légitimité. Et cela s'est beaucoup fait dans l'histoire, de donner un nom qui n'a strictement rien à voir juste pour accroître la légitimité du régime. Rien que l'URSS : Union des Républiques Socialistes Soviétiques. Est-ce que pour toi ça a quelque chose à voir avec le régime sous Lénine ou Staline ? Idem pour la Chine, son nom : République Populaire de Chine, c'est une république populaire pour toi ? Ou encore Taïwan : République de Chine, est-ce que Taïwan contrôle le territoire chinois pour autant ?

Je suis idéologiquement et sentimentalement bien plus proche de la Commune que du PCF stalinien de l'époque, mais HOI est censé être une simulation historique, un minimum de crédibilité me semble nécessaire.

Et donc pour toi, appeler une France communiste "French Commune" c'est moins crédible que la France qui passe communiste en un an, sans problème, qui se réarme et qui est en 1939 est assez puissante pour battre l'Italie, l'Espagne et l'Allemagne en même temps, après avoir envahi la Suisse et avoir tout de même reçu une invitation à devenir allié aux Anglais ?

Ce HoI se veut uchronique pour augmenter la rejouabilité et la durée de vie, pas une simulation pure et dure. Si tu veux ça, tu vas sur Darkest Hour et tu prends le mod33, et tu verras que là t'arriveras même pas à devenir communiste.


Translate : He's wrong.
 
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Tu te bases sur quoi pour dire ça exactement ? Parce-que sinon ça veut strictement rien dire.
Donc tu n'as rien lu de ce qui a été écrit avant en fait. Personnellement j'ai donné mes arguments et répondu aux différentes contradictions qui m'étaient proposées, je ne vais pas passer mon temps à les répéter.
__________

So you didn't read what the others wrote before you. Personally I gave my arguments and answered the points that people raised, I won't spend my time repeating them.
 

Volodio

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Donc tu n'as rien lu de ce qui a été écrit avant en fait. Personnellement j'ai donné mes arguments et répondu aux différentes contradictions qui m'étaient proposées, je ne vais pas passer mon temps à les répéter.
__________

So you didn't read what the others wrote before you. Personally I gave my arguments and answered the points that people raised, I won't spend my time repeating them.

Bien sûr que si j'ai lu, arrête de faire de l'ad hominem et répond à mon post ou reconnais que tu as tort.

Translate : I did read. Stop doing ad hominem and answer to my message or assume you're wrong.
 

Jamryl

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Quick and simple answer would be: There is absolutely no way that the French Communist Party would have used "Commune" to name France in the 30's.
You may like the "French Commune" name, I got it it's your right I don't hate it either, but we should be agree on the fact that "Commune" wasn't possible at all.
 
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Quick and simple answer would be: There is absolutely no way that the French Communist Party would have used "Commune" to name France in the 30's. You may like the "French Commune" name, I got it it's your right I don't hate it either, but we should be agree on the fact that "Commune" wasn't possible at all.

After seeing totalitarian stalinists states call themselves people's democracies, nothing is impossible or foolish.
 
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Please stop posting in French. This is not allowed - this is an English language forum.

If you have to quote an original text in French then explain why you are quoting French, and provide a translation.
 
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TLDR : OP doesn't know shit about communism, whether it's in France or elsewhere. French communists in 1930s and even years later would not find "WEIRD" to call themselves with a name reminding of the 1870 revolution. Unfortunately, his lack of understanding is adamant in front of the replies of the other french people on the thread. Let him mod it if it suits himself better, after all, all paradox games get mods to make them more "historical", why not one which would make it less ?

Please stop posting in French. This is not allowed - this is an English language forum.

If you have to quote an original text in French then explain why you are quoting French, and provide a translation.

Yeah, well, I understand your point, but frankly having to participate in such a ridiculous debate, and in the same time doing it in a language which is not your first, is annoying enough.
 
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Would politically have no sense since the principle of the commune itself is to be a small entity.

Well, Paris was so huge it could be considered as a little state (and it was working as a state during the Commune).

Furthermore, the size of such an entity is absolutely subjective. You could say that before the revolution, a Republic was a political entity for small states and city states.

Commune is a word that just designate a community of people as my link and the etymology of commune word suggest it.

The first socialists were for a federation of free communes, but a French Commune would have meant nothing to their eyes since the purpose of a commune is to enable managing things in a local way.

You could switch for Union of French Communes as I said earlier.

Next, "French Commune" seems to not have the meaning "Commune Française" but "Communauté Française" or "Commun Français". And it doesn't evoke a government name in french.

As everyone said, it's directly a reference to Paris Commune, so French Commune WAS meant to be translated as "Commune de France".
And if it doesn't evoke a government name in French, it's because such a government never existed.

Finally, no matter how symbolic the Commune is, the 1930' FCP would NEVER have used such a name, and wouldn't even have refered to the Paris Commune since its doctrine was at the opposite, and there was at the time a more obvious, accessible and shared reference: the Soviet Union, aka paradise on Earth in the mind of leftist people.

I'm not an expert but USSR was really fond of the Paris Commune. It was seen by Marx and everyone else as an ideal every communist should strive for. In the stream, communist peacefully took control of the country but we don't really know how it happened. Maybe Paris was blocked by communist who declared a 2nd Commune or something.
 
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Then you know why French Commune has nothing to do with the Paris Commune, I have nothing to answer.

If you refuse the debate, stop this.
 

Verenti

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I follow my French fellow. I also find it quite weird.

Yeaaah, but ... that's not the extent of weird names in HOI4. HOI4 has weird names for alternate ideologies. Yes, the French Socialist Republic should be something like ... la republique des travailleurs or ... la republique socaliste de France or just RS France or something. But they're going with French Commune because of the uprising of the Paris Commune.

Whatever. Just roll with it.
 
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