"French Commune" doesn't make sense

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ecololuc

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Hi everyone!

As it doesn't seem to have been noted by the devs (and my bad if it has been), I wanted to point out that the dynamic name for red France makes no sense at all.

The word "commune" is an administrative division that means a village/town/city, and it is used when we talk about Paris' Commune nowadays (which was, for those who don't know, a brief insurrection that happened when Paris people refused to surrender to Prussia - surrender that was by the way wanted and actively backed by some/most of the elites - in 1871 and ended in a real purge of the most influential leftist activitsts of that time) because it happened in Paris (with attempts to do the same in other cities, but then we talk about Lyon's Commune for example). To say French Commune in order to talk about France is like to say British City to talk about the UK, it isn't a correct government name I think. (Plus, actual french commies of 1930' wouldn't have at all thinked about making this name up, they were following the USSR's model and orders.)

A simple Communist France or French Socialist Republic (since France is in fact already named French Republic) could be used. Or anything else, as long as it makes sense.

From Paris (Rennes in fact) with love,
A french fan


EDIT: So my unawareness of the other meaning of the word "commune" have led me to make a missed case, but the "complain" still holds, and here is why:

If we had to translate it in french, "French Commune" would be "Communauté Française", which does not evoke a government name at all, so there would be no reason for France to be named like this. But even if we were to imagine that "French Commune" could be a name given by other countries to a french "commune" government (one that anarcho-syndicalism could give birth to), that is not what a communist party would have done - especially not the 1930-1940 French Communist Party. The French Communist Party was a plain stalinist party at the time (the proof of this is that they stopped fighting the nazis during the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, which made some members, like the philosopher Paul Nizan, leave the party), and was financially backed by the USSR and more or less (more more than less) following Moscow's orders. However, we can clearly see in the game that red France is ruled by Maurice Thorez and backed by its party in the political screen. Historically, this makes no sense.

I understand that it's a reference to a well liked mod, but it really doesn't sound right.
 
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It's most likely a reference to the Commune of Paris. Does it make a lot of sense practical sense? Not really. Does it communicate the point? Absolutely, and that's more important.
 
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Hi everyone!

As it doesn't seem to have been noted by the devs (and my bad if it has been), I wanted to point out that the dynamic name for red France makes no sense at all.

The word "commune" is an administrative division that means a village/town/city, and it is used when we talk about Paris' Commune nowadays (which was, for those who don't know, a brief insurrection that happened when Paris people refused to surrender to Prussia - surrender that was by the way wanted and actively backed by some/most of the elites - in 1871 and ended in a real purge of the most influential leftist activitsts of that time) because it happened in Paris (with attempts to do the same in other cities, but then we talk about Lyon's Commune for example). To say French Commune in order to talk about France is like to say British City to talk about the UK, it isn't a correct government name I think. (Plus, actual french commies of 1930' wouldn't have at all thinked about making this name up, they were following the USSR's model and orders.)

A simple Communist France or French Socialist Republic (since France is in fact already named French Republic) could be used. Or anything else, as long as it makes sense.

From Paris (Rennes in fact) with love,
A french fan

Actually, commune (the noun) generally means a collective/cooporative society in general (not unlike a "true" communist society to quote Daniel), and its derived from the Latin word communis, meaning "things held in common" (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commune), it's just the French also use it in reference to a specificadministrative division.

An analogy is a "State dinner". State is used in the US as an administrative division, does that mean the US government can't host dinner functions? ;)
 
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kviiri

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I would guess it's not a reference to communes as French administrative units, but rather communes as in a collective society. I think it's a general name for Communist countries, like Nationalist Foo is for Fascists.
 
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ecololuc

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What about Commune of France then? Its whats used in the Kaiserreich mod for Syndicalist(and Totalist) France.

Well it doesn't make more sense. It's like "City of France".

However, the actual idea of 1871's socialists was to build up a "Federation of Free Communes". Something like a lot of city-states directly and democratically ruled by the citizens who inhabit them, united in a federation which would take care of the very few regal powers which cannot be handled by the communes (for most of them, the police and the army weren't part of those powers). So if you want to play a 1871-socialist red France, you could use a name composed around those concepts. The Free Communes of France, French Free Communes, French Federation of Communes or something like this.

But historically, the fact is that a lot of those thinkers and their followers were at the Paris Commune (and got wiped out there by the "republican" forces) and Marx kicked their asses in the Internationals, so their ideas were quickly "forgotten" of at least outfashioned in the newly organized communist parties (which were marxists, and not bakuninists or proudhonians). So it doesn't make sense historically.

In 1930', the French Communist Party was (like quite every other communist party) backed by and following the USSR's orders and ideas, the proper name should be Communist France (if you want to label things the same way Nationalist and Republican Spain are) or French Socialist Republic (which to my eyes seems like the name it could have been, but I'm no expert of the French Communist Party of that time).
 
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Well it doesn't make more sense. It's like "City of France".

No it's not, really. You're just confusing the two different uses of term "Commune". In this context it means "commune" as in collective labor-pooling and division unit, not "commune" as in "French administrative unit".
 
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ecololuc

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No it's not, really. You're just confusing the two different uses of term "Commune". In this context it means "commune" as in collective labor-pooling and division unit, not "commune" as in "French administrative unit".
Oh, yes! I didn't knew this meaning of the word. It's again an english false friend!

But it doesn't change the fact that it doesn't make any kind of sense historically regarding to what the French Communist Party would have done. Especially since "Communauté Française" (the french translation of French Commune understood in this way) doesn't sound at all like a government name in french.
 
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But it doesn't change the fact that it doesn't make any kind of sense historically regarding to what the French Communist Party would have done. Especially since "Communauté Française" (the french translation of French Commune understood in this way) doesn't sound at all like a government name in french.

That might be, but OTOH no one called themselves "Nationalist Spain" either ;) the name could be better, but its main purpose is convenience, not historical accuracy. And quite often, the common names used by others are different from the official ones.
 
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ecololuc

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That might be, but OTOH no one called themselves "Nationalist Spain" either ;) the name could be better, but its main purpose is convenience, not historical accuracy. And quite often, the common names used by others are different from the official ones.

Well, at least Nationalist Spain is a name that conveys the idea behind the country's government. But even if we were to imagine that something like French Commune could be a name given by others to a french "commune" government (as like one that anarcho-syndicalism could give birth to), that is not what a communist party would have done - especially not the 1930-1940 French Communist Party. However, we can clearly see in the game that it's ruled by Maurice Thorez and backed by its party in the political screen.

(And really, as a french, it really sounds horrible. Which is sad since a lot of France players will be french players.)
 
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amalric de g.

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Commune denotes a kind of localism alien to the progressively expanding positivist statism of post-Revolution France. The term Republic is burned onto the very soul of France.
 
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I quite like the name "French commune"

However if someone came up with a better name than that I'd be all for it
 
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Achilles Return

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Well, at least Nationalist Spain is a name that conveys the idea behind the country's government. But even if we were to imagine that something like French Commune could be a name given by others to a french "commune" government (as like one that anarcho-syndicalism could give birth to), that is not what a communist party would have done - especially not the 1930-1940 French Communist Party. Or, we can clearly see in the game that it's ruled by Maurice Thorez and backed by its party in the political screen.

(And really, as a french, it really sounds horrible. Which is sad since a lot of France players will be french players.)

I'd like to plug the Endonym mod I'm going to create and say that I'm absolutely open to suggestions on native names for the alternative ideologies. Pop into the mod thread and let me know your ideas for France.
 
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