Well, I observed that freeminting actually takes away from my research. Or was I daydreaming?
Freeminting Exploit
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You are not AI though, are you?
Unlike you, the AI covers its monthly maintenance payments by minting. Replace these payments with freeminting instead and all that happens is that the AI mints less. Tech research will stay constant.
lucistnik said:
Yes, but so does minting to pay the expenses as well. The only difference is that you get no inflation if you freemint.
frpe02 said:
More importantly HOW will this be fixed?
1. what was freeminting will now incrue inflation?
2. You will be forced to take a loan?
3. The AI will now freemint?
4. Some other way to slove this will be taken?
I would really like to know how it will be fixed, if it is going to be fixed, so that we can be prepared to alter treasury planning in the future.
Bowfling44 said:
I vote for option 1. Plain and simple, if you produce coins you are going to get inflation.
I think that any rational player would prefer to mint rather than be forced to take out a loan (especially as you can always take out a loan voluntarily), so force-minting would be the option that would minimize micromanagement.
(Force-minting is the equivalent of Option 1 of course. Would be logical to move the slider too to avoid any more confusion).
(Force-minting is the equivalent of Option 1 of course. Would be logical to move the slider too to avoid any more confusion).
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I think there should be some penalty rather then force minting. Poor management of the nations economy should piss off a lot of people.
If the penalty is worse than minting then the player will mint anyway, he'll just have to do it manually. So why not save him the trouble?
Loans should be manual, yes, I agree.
And good work figuring out the AI never freemints!
And good work figuring out the AI never freemints!
I can only speak based on the tests I've done, but in general what I can say is:
1. Usually the AI does not seem to suffer from any lack of cash. I don't know where the idea came from that the AI is fiscally challenged. Take any saved game and load up any AI country at any time of year and they are usually rolling in it.
2. If the AI is at war then minting will always be set equal to military maintenance, irrespective of how much is in the treasury.
3. If the AI is at peace, then the AI won't mint if it has a fair amount of cash in the treasury. However, when the treasury starts getting very low it will start minting to cover military maintenance.
4. The AI won't mint to cover advisors' salaries. This seems to be the only item that could in theory lead to AI freeminting. AI minting is tied to military maintenance only, so advisors' salaries represent a potential hole in the accounts.
5. If you empty a country's treasury and then hand the country over to the AI, the AI will automatically start minting to cover military maintenance. The same thing happens if you freemint with the country for a while before handing over to the AI.
So the conclusion seems to be that a small amount of AI freeminting is possible to cover advisors' salaries, which seem to have been forgotten about when telling the AI how much to mint. Of course, this freeminting will typically be dwarfed by the minting to cover military maintenance.
And note that this advisor freeminting is in any case only a theoretical possibility. Point 1 above suggests that AI countries do not typically have empty treasuries in the first place.
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I say that when the treasury hits zero and expenses can no longer be paid then zero the slider automatically. This will keep micromanagement at bay and introduce the inflation penalty which should already be there,
Only if there is no way to cover monthly expenses with monthly income should a nation be forced to take a loan.
To be honest this seems to be how it should work if you read the manual and/or use some common sense.
Only if there is no way to cover monthly expenses with monthly income should a nation be forced to take a loan.
To be honest this seems to be how it should work if you read the manual and/or use some common sense.
vercetti said:
What risk? Freeminting covers events and your larger standing army covers wars.
Darkrenown said:
vercetti said:
when everyone is able to "freemint", everyone will have a larger army. incidentally, this actually means once freeminting is banned, we'll see even more mercenaries, as the standing army will be the primary cause of inflation.
actually, if it's true that the ai never "freemints", we now know why they favor mercs over standing army.
lucistnik said:
except that an average latin nation inevitably bumps into the tech limit. which in effect means, you should waste research for cash, which incidentally is exactly what "freeminting" is about.
vercetti said:
And how often is that? Not very, I'd say. Most of the random events with a cash option cost 20-60 ducats, so should not be a over your monthly income past the first 100 years at most, and are either province events or scaled by country size so are less likely to hit you before you can afford them even in that danger zone anyway.
i guess the basic misunderstanding here is that i stop playing after the first 100 years 
obviously the game becomes pointless once the tech limit is reached and i get 500 ducats census tax and 150 ducats monthly income...
PS: and yes, i do realize this is the best argument why expenses shouldn't be inflation free but as this is still the status quo, i'm trying to move down the tech ladder now to make the game last longer. problem is, census tax isn't affected by tech group, and tech in and of itself is so irrelevant that it's probably a futile effort.
obviously the game becomes pointless once the tech limit is reached and i get 500 ducats census tax and 150 ducats monthly income...PS: and yes, i do realize this is the best argument why expenses shouldn't be inflation free
but as this is still the status quo, i'm trying to move down the tech ladder now to make the game last longer. problem is, census tax isn't affected by tech group, and tech in and of itself is so irrelevant that it's probably a futile effort.Darkrenown said:
When you get an event with a -200 ducats option at zero treasury and you choose it, your treasury stockpile becomes -200. The next month, the treasury will be at zero again, but your monthly income will be lowered by 200. The month after that, the monthly income will be increased back by 200 again, but the program will move your sliders so that this 200 ducats monthly income will be equally divided over all the sliders.
I don`t know if you get inflation this way though.
I don`t know if you get inflation this way though.
vercetti said:
except that "minting" also accomplishes the same thing, only with inflation
In any case, I think it's evident freeminting allows a player to do things that the AI does not do, and causes a radical shift in the way the game is played that, to many players, is an unintended shift.
How are people handling this exploit in MP? Are everyone using it? Because it seems difficult to stop people from exploiting this.
Let's hope they fix this soon.
Let's hope they fix this soon.
When someone is having a ridiculously large army that hie economy would not be able to support normally, freeminting can be suspected, but not proven...frpe02 said: