Free units in TRP

[Minodrin]

Now, maybe you have noticed a discussion the main forum about which mod to choose. That discussion then derailed into a discussion about that giving free units to the AI = cheating. Specifically, one member pointed out that TRP has several events that give free units to the AI.

One of the big things that I liked about TRP was it's lack of cheating. But planting 6 or so garrisons in several cities is indeed cheating.

To remedy this I suggest that the TRP staff simply remove the AI-Only trigger from these events. If some player looses bad enough to trigger them, it won't make a whole lot of difference on the eastern front wether or not the Soviet player gets a couple more garrisons. But it might matter that the mod doesn't give just the AI extra stuff to make the game artifically harder for the poor, poor human.

Or you could just delete the events and make the AI garrison the cities better. Which I suppose might be a bit harder than my suggestion to do.

 

[Luxor]

Now, maybe you have noticed a discussion the main forum about which mod to choose. That discussion then derailed into a discussion about that giving free units to the AI = cheating. Specifically, one member pointed out that TRP has several events that give free units to the AI.

One of the big things that I liked about TRP was it's lack of cheating. But planting 6 or so garrisons in several cities is indeed cheating.

To remedy this I suggest that the TRP staff simply remove the AI-Only trigger from these events. If some player looses bad enough to trigger them, it won't make a whole lot of difference on the eastern front wether or not the Soviet player gets a couple more garrisons. But it might matter that the mod doesn't give just the AI extra stuff to make the game artifically harder for the poor, poor human.

Or you could just delete the events and make the AI garrison the cities better. Which I suppose might be a bit harder than my suggestion to do.

How would you simulate historical facts like people flocking to defend cities and create militia/garrison units? This happened historically. Those events simulate it and are not a cheat. Number of divisions are not to make game harder but they are what historically were created in a very few days.

 

[Lothos]

Now, maybe you have noticed a discussion the main forum about which mod to choose. That discussion then derailed into a discussion about that giving free units to the AI = cheating. Specifically, one member pointed out that TRP has several events that give free units to the AI.

One of the big things that I liked about TRP was it's lack of cheating. But planting 6 or so garrisons in several cities is indeed cheating.

To remedy this I suggest that the TRP staff simply remove the AI-Only trigger from these events. If some player looses bad enough to trigger them, it won't make a whole lot of difference on the eastern front wether or not the Soviet player gets a couple more garrisons. But it might matter that the mod doesn't give just the AI extra stuff to make the game artifically harder for the poor, poor human.

Or you could just delete the events and make the AI garrison the cities better. Which I suppose might be a bit harder than my suggestion to do.

There where allot of events created in the past (remember we have over 10,000) which where much older versions of TRP (dating over 2 or more years ago).

1) There is no NEED to make a big deal out of this you are talking about 3 or so events which will get changed.
2) Again you can't compare it to other mods which RAIN down free units to the AI. The effects of those 3 events are really miniscule.

 

[unmerged(63886)]

I don't belive they must be deleted. They add a "good" and historic feeling for the game and really makes the game more historical, because:

The cities that recives garrisons are vital to Soviet Union... I'd really "like" it when hundres of thousands people defending it to the last man, since that was done IRL.

And,a couple of units for me or AI doesn't make that big of a differece. I see them more for flavour and a better game simulation.

But...

TRP Ai is so good anyway, is it really needed that the ai must have them? (just a retorical question, I don't feel that they do, since I get steamrolled in 42-43 anyway ) Isn't it enough if I (player) recive them (and have a option to accept them) just for the sake of historical realism to the game?

and perhaps, they could be locked to the specific city (well, garrisons are, but so no one can strat. red.) them?

I humbley await 0.92, but I would mind playing it this weekend.

 

[Minodrin]

Please note that I'm not saying they are bad events, just that they should be equal (both for human and AI).

 

[unmerged(42223)]

How would you simulate historical facts like people flocking to defend cities and create militia/garrison units? This happened historically. Those events simulate it and are not a cheat. Number of divisions are not to make game harder but they are what historically were created in a very few days.

Well actually I made it happen a bit too well and it got boring. So lately I toned it down and almost out.

One, you could have an event sniffs for loss of control of either a certain percentage (simple way) or get fancy and list provinces on the approach to Stalingrad, Moscow and Leningrad. AI switch the 'desperation' command. Like Lothos did with someone landing in Canada, but there the sequence was off and it did not work.

Anyway the second step is remake the militia unit a bit. Something like this.

# Regular Militia
model = {
cost = 25.0
buildtime = 1
manpower = 15
maxspeed = 5
defaultorganisation = 50
morale = 15
defensiveness = 20
toughness = 5
softness = 150
suppression = 2
airdefence = 50
softattack = 4
hardattack = 0
airattack = 1
transportweight = 2
supplyconsumption = 0
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 6
speed_cap_eng = 6
speed_cap_at = 6
speed_cap_aa = 6
upgrade_time_factor = 5.0
upgrade_cost_factor = 2.0

The idea is simple really, and you could just do it as I do, adding this line on the top of the Soviet AI and long as it is not swapped out, should remain in effect for the duration.

desperation = 0.20

So here with this setting for instance when the Soviets lose control of 20% of their provinces they que in on top loads of these IC hog but 1 day militia runs and lastest infantry and build a few large runs of each and throw them on the line. All other builds are displaced in priority.

This example of one such militia has special attributes and weakeness that generally make them undesirable for the human to build. And if the AI prevails will abandon the those builds too by shuffling them to the bottom of the que.

 

[Gen. Skobelev]

[Snip]

Really good idea. TRP however already has use for militia division model as a elite division so there are no "free" division slots usable for any panic conscription divisions, I think. But the principle sounds very nice.

 

[unmerged(42223)]

Really good idea. TRP however already has use for militia division model as a elite division so there are no "free" division slots usable for any panic conscription divisions, I think. But the principle sounds very nice.

Wow, now if you put it in for the Germans at 0.01 so when they lose 1% of their home turf they can commence to churn out 'elite divisions'.


Anyway did not know about that.

 

[unmerged(42223)]

Really good idea. TRP however already has use for militia division model as a elite division so there are no "free" division slots usable for any panic conscription divisions, I think. But the principle sounds very nice.

Hi just wondering, what does TRP mod do with partisan activity?

 

[Gen. Skobelev]

Hi just wondering, what does TRP mod do with partisan activity?

Hmm I'm not too familiar with TRP, at least not yet, but I haven't seen much changes on that aspect. I'm using TRP for DD, not the latest version for ARM so it might have changed, but I believe the starting values seem to be close Vanilla ones.

# Nationalism starting value
	15
# Monthly Nationalism reduction
	-0.002

 

[unmerged(42223)]

Hi thanks, but I meant when partisans show up on map, what unit is that?

 

[Gen. Skobelev]

Woops, slight misunderstanding, that. Partisans are model 0 militia which is more or less the same as in Vanilla. Models 2+ are the elite divisions.

allowed_brigades =  artillery
allowed_brigades =  anti_tank		
allowed_brigades =  anti_air		
allowed_brigades =  rocket_artillery
allowed_brigades =  sp_artillery	
allowed_brigades =  sp_rct_artillery
allowed_brigades =  tank_destroyer	
allowed_brigades =  light_armor_brigade
allowed_brigades =  heavy_armor	
#allowed_brigades =  super_heavy_armor
allowed_brigades =  armored_car
allowed_brigades =  engineer			
allowed_brigades =  police

# Regular Militia - 0
model = {
	cost 					= 4
	buildtime				= 50
	manpower 				= 8
	maxspeed 				= 10
	defaultorganisation		= 30
	morale 					= 30
	defensiveness			= 48
	toughness				= 30
	softness				= 100
	suppression				= 1
	airdefence				= 2
	softattack				= 2
	hardattack				= 0
	airattack				= 1
	transportweight			= 10
	supplyconsumption 		= 0.2
	fuelconsumption			= 0
	speed_cap_art			= 11
	speed_cap_eng			= 11
	speed_cap_at			= 11
	speed_cap_aa			= 11
	upgrade_time_factor 	= 0.75
	upgrade_cost_factor 	= 0.50
}

# DUMMY - 1
model = {
	cost					= 4
	buildtime				= 55
	manpower 				= 8
	maxspeed 				= 4
	defaultorganisation		= 30
	morale 					= 30
	defensiveness 			= 15
	toughness	 			= 5
	softness	 			= 100
	suppression				= 1
	airdefence				= 3
	softattack				= 6
	hardattack				= 3
	airattack				= 1
	transportweight			= 10
	supplyconsumption	 	= 0.5
	fuelconsumption			= 0
	speed_cap_art			= 4
	speed_cap_eng			= 4
	speed_cap_at			= 4
	speed_cap_aa			= 4
	upgrade_time_factor 	= 0.75
	upgrade_cost_factor 	= 0.50
}

# Early Elite Infantry Division (1936) - 2
model = {
	cost 					= 10
	buildtime	 			= 125
	manpower 				= 19
	maxspeed 				= 11
	defaultorganisation 	= 50
	morale					= 50
	defensiveness 			= 58
	toughness				= 48
	softness				= 100
	suppression				= 2
	airdefence				= 4
	softattack				= 12
	hardattack				= 2
	airattack				= 3
	transportweight			= 10
	supplyconsumption		= 1.5
	fuelconsumption			= 0
	speed_cap_art			= 10
	speed_cap_eng			= 10
	speed_cap_at			= 10
	speed_cap_aa			= 10
	upgrade_time_factor 	= 0.75
	upgrade_cost_factor 	= 0.50
}
# Basic Elite Infantry Division (1939) - 3
model = {
	cost 				= 10
	buildtime	 		= 125
	manpower 			= 19
	maxspeed 			= 11
	defaultorganisation = 50
	morale				= 50
	defensiveness 		= 64
	toughness			= 54
	softness			= 100
	suppression			= 2
	airdefence			= 5
	softattack			= 14
	hardattack			= 4
	airattack			= 4
	transportweight		= 10
	supplyconsumption 	= 1.5
	fuelconsumption		= 0
	speed_cap_art		= 10
	speed_cap_eng		= 10
	speed_cap_at		= 10
	speed_cap_aa		= 10
	upgrade_time_factor = 0.75
	upgrade_cost_factor = 0.50
}
# Improved Elite Infantry Division (1941) - 4
model = {
	cost 				= 10
	buildtime	 		= 125
	manpower 			= 19
	maxspeed 			= 11
	defaultorganisation = 50
	morale				= 50
	defensiveness 		= 70
	toughness			= 60
	softness			= 100
	suppression			= 2
	airdefence			= 6
	softattack			= 16
	hardattack			= 5
	airattack			= 4
	transportweight		= 10
	supplyconsumption 	= 1.6
	fuelconsumption		= 0
	speed_cap_art		= 10
	speed_cap_eng		= 10
	speed_cap_at		= 10
	speed_cap_aa		= 10
	upgrade_time_factor = 0.75
	upgrade_cost_factor = 0.50
}
# Advanced Elite Infantry Division (1943) - 5
model = {
	cost 				= 10
	buildtime	 		= 125
	manpower 			= 19
	maxspeed 			= 12
	defaultorganisation = 50
	morale				= 50
	defensiveness 		= 75
	toughness			= 65
	softness			= 100
	suppression			= 2
	airdefence			= 6
	softattack			= 18
	hardattack			= 6
	airattack			= 6
	transportweight		= 10
	supplyconsumption 	= 1.6
	fuelconsumption		= 0
	speed_cap_art		= 11
	speed_cap_eng		= 11
	speed_cap_at		= 11
	speed_cap_aa		= 11
	upgrade_time_factor	= 0.75
	upgrade_cost_factor	= 0.50
}
# Semimodern Elite Infantry Division (1945) - 6
model = {
	cost 				= 10
	buildtime	 		= 125
	manpower 			= 19
	maxspeed 			= 12
	defaultorganisation = 50
	morale				= 50
	defensiveness 		= 80
	toughness			= 65
	softness			= 100
	suppression			= 2
	airdefence			= 7
	softattack			= 22
	hardattack			= 7
	airattack			= 7
	transportweight		= 10
	supplyconsumption 	= 1.6
	fuelconsumption		= 0
	speed_cap_art		= 11
	speed_cap_eng		= 11
	speed_cap_at		= 11
	speed_cap_aa		= 11
	upgrade_time_factor = 0.75
	upgrade_cost_factor = 0.50
}
# Modern Elite Infantry Division (1947) - 7
model = {
	cost 				= 10
	buildtime	 		= 125
	manpower 			= 19
	maxspeed 			= 12
	defaultorganisation = 50
	morale				= 50
	defensiveness 		= 85
	toughness			= 68
	softness			= 100
	suppression			= 2
	airdefence			= 8
	softattack			= 26
	hardattack			= 9
	airattack			= 9
	transportweight		= 10
	supplyconsumption 	= 1.8
	fuelconsumption		= 0
	speed_cap_art		= 11
	speed_cap_eng		= 11
	speed_cap_at		= 11
	speed_cap_aa		= 11
	upgrade_time_factor = 0.75
	upgrade_cost_factor = 0.50
}
# Improved Modern Elite Infantry Division (1951) - 8
model = {
	cost 				= 10
	buildtime	 		= 125
	manpower 			= 19
	maxspeed 			= 12
	defaultorganisation = 50
	morale				= 50
	defensiveness 		= 90
	toughness			= 75
	softness			= 100
	suppression			= 2
	airdefence			= 9
	softattack			= 30
	hardattack			= 11
	airattack			= 11
	transportweight		= 10
	supplyconsumption 	= 1.8
	fuelconsumption		= 0
	speed_cap_art		= 11
	speed_cap_eng		= 11
	speed_cap_at		= 11
	speed_cap_aa		= 11
	upgrade_time_factor = 0.75
	upgrade_cost_factor = 0.50
}

edit: now that I look at the militia, it seems model 9 is unusable. I wonder if there would be some problems by making model 0 as partisan, model 1 as "panic build" division, model 2 as dummy to prevent upgrading and models 3-9 elite divisions...

 

[unmerged(42223)]

Thanks! You can test it easy enough, place my militia settings in milita model 0 and the panic command at = 0.01 in Soviet AI file and as Germany attack and take a few Soviet provinces and then save and reload and see what the Soviet build que is doing.

Not that I am selling the idea anyways, just curious what happens, but that unit file seems to make things clear enough.