Gen. Skobelev said:
What are you pointing at?
Germany has many provinces and as far as i know there is no factory cap in provinces?
I think i don't understand what you are hinting at.
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What are you pointing at?
Germany has many provinces and as far as i know there is no factory cap in provinces?
I think i don't understand what you are hinting at.
_Curieus_ said:
What are you pointing at?
Germany has many provinces and as far as i know there is no factory cap in provinces?
I think i don't understand what you are hinting at.
You can build only one IC per province at time so maximum IC allocated to IC builds is eventually limited by province numbers. With CP +25% IC you can reach this ceiling much faster than with FM but on the other hand FM handles these IC builds faster. And after this ceiling is reached, there is no more compound interest achieved since no extra IC can be devoted to IC builds. With FM this ceiling is not reached as fast to compound interest will accumulate for longer time resulting in better growth.
Gen. Skobelev said:
I doubt that reaching the maximum number of provinces is a problem for most countries. Most majors are big enough that they are not limited by their number of provinces.
Most minors have not enough IC to be limited by the numbers of provinces.
Especially if they want to build any units too..
The graph above was meant to get insight whether FM would give significant advantages over CP or vice versa. The conclusion is that industrialisation is not a significant factor.
However...
your machinetools and plastics (?) +5 percentagepoint ic techs will profit the FM more than the CP.
Basic Machinetools will modify FM is to 105% while CP is modified to 130%
FM gets a net 5% increase ((105-100)/100) while CP gets a 4% increase ((130-125)/125).
Basically the conclusion you can draw from the graph is that there is no significant advantage industrilialisation-wise to either policy.
Other factors will have to cause the difference.
(try for fun) Soviets with Free Market is just the dullest type of game under the sun. Just hordes and hordes of tanks&inf in no time. :rofl:
Free Market every time.
Free Market every time.
_Curieus_ said:
....Me thinks quite a true comment when playing a strategy WAR game
!
Anarhco Liberal said:
That is because you are an anarchist....I grew out of that phase.......
I voted for Free Market but if I am closer to full CP then I will obviously go with that.
It really depends on what sliders I can max as well....
Central Planning, this is because I rarely play other countrys than the Axis nations . Though if I as an ally start out with Free Market I willl do with that .
Am I the only one who finds the BiB option in every poll slightly disturbing?
. Though if I as an ally start out with Free Market I willl do with that . Am I the only one who finds the BiB option in every poll slightly disturbing?
I'm surprised that Central Planning isn't getting more votes... I've always thought I was bucking the trend by prefering Free Market. (Although I'll go with Central Planning if my chosen nation is much farther in that direction... like in Germany's case.)
If the free market you do not support, an anarcho-liberal you shouold not call yourself.Anarhco Liberal said:
FM for sure.
You can say alot about CP, but you cant get a 40% discount on carriers, and that makes one hell of a difference.
You can say alot about CP, but you cant get a 40% discount on carriers, and that makes one hell of a difference.
Hmmm...
In my honest opinion it depends upon what ideology you are.
There are trade-offs to both that must be considered.
As authoritarian, you can't max free market easily, but you can max out CP easily.
As a liberal democracy it is easier to max out free market.
As for someone who says FM always beats CP, I beg to differ.
It's not merely the sliders, but also the doctrines that play into it. With CP I get more IC to build more things at once, with FM you get a decreased cost and build time. You still can't build AS MUCH as I can with maxed out FM as opposed to maxed out CP with same base IC, but you can build it faster.
You can also upgrade faster, which is why as CP it is important to choose your research appropriately and upgrade in steps.
Bottom line though, I never have any problems in MP due to CP vs. FM.
In my honest opinion it depends upon what ideology you are.
There are trade-offs to both that must be considered.
As authoritarian, you can't max free market easily, but you can max out CP easily.
As a liberal democracy it is easier to max out free market.
As for someone who says FM always beats CP, I beg to differ.
It's not merely the sliders, but also the doctrines that play into it. With CP I get more IC to build more things at once, with FM you get a decreased cost and build time. You still can't build AS MUCH as I can with maxed out FM as opposed to maxed out CP with same base IC, but you can build it faster.
You can also upgrade faster, which is why as CP it is important to choose your research appropriately and upgrade in steps.
Bottom line though, I never have any problems in MP due to CP vs. FM.
Sunfighter said:
If you're playing a SP game as the US and start a little side war to get rid of the peace time IC penalty? Sure.
I agree with your conclusions, but not with the details.DarkSoul1984 said:
FM can indeed build just as many units at once... and build them faster as well.
Consider two countries, both with 100 ICs available to devote to builds, both building units costing 5 ICs (base). The CP country gets a +25% IC bonus, so can build 25 of them instead of 20. The FM country only pays 80% of the IC cost, so can also build 25 of them instead of 20... and builds them faster.
Granted, FM is usually associated with Democratic / Open slider positions, and thus requires more CGs... but that also means that they don't have to produce Supplies for export, in order to gain a Cash surplus for Intel operations.
You might feel that the CP country can afford to maintain a larger Army from the same base ICs, since it gets +25% TC from the IC bonus... but CP countries are also Closed Society countries, and as soon as they start conquering provinces, they will have to put up with three or four times as much Partisan Activity as the FM (Open Society) country; as well as much larger Dissent hits for releasing Puppets. That will cancel out... and most often, more than just cancel out... their 25% advantage in TC.
I do agree, though, that FM and CP are pretty well balanced... so well balanced that the choice between them ought to be made based on factors that really have nothing to do with the relative merits of CP vs FM.
For instance, your starting slider position is probably the single most important determining factor... you should normally head for the end of the spectrum that you can reach most easily. Nations that will be making many DoWs are probably better off heading for Authoritarian / Closed / CP. "Liberating"... as opposed to "Conquering"... nations would do better with Democratic / Open / FM... for the low-Dissent Puppet release feature.
In SP, you can get rid of all except 20% of the Peacetime penalty just by waiting for the Marco Polo Bridge event and them using GM on Japan. You can quite easily drive their Belligerence up high enough to trigger all three Gearing events by early 1939 (at the latest).DarkSoul1984 said:
blue emu said:
Yeah, I don't like to crunch the numbers in this game. But you did raise the points of the dependence upon other sliders.
As for partisan activity, that's what I use my Expeditionary Forces for when I play as Germany, so I really don't factor that in to be honest. It's merely a side item that gets relegated to "Meh, wouldn't it be nice..."
As for the Consumer Goods, it's also freakishly dependent upon your BASE IC, Open/Closed Society (I think), FM/CP, Interventionism/Hawk, etc. etc. etc. It is also dependent upon ministers and such.
To be honest, that's a lot of freakin' situations, so the best would be to consider fully maxed, at which point, I maintain they are balanced, especially when taking strategic position into account. Germany NEEDS CP for TC and such. The USA doesn't, mostly because you should be releasing puppets as the USA.
Also, those countries with FM starting out, also have the IC Penalty, and it does take time to get rid of them.
Whenever I play as Germany, everything is usually maxed by '41, everything until standing army maxed to the right, everything standing army and under to the left. That gives FM a -25% (I believe) production time and upgrade time, which I really couldn't care less about AT THAT POINT IN THE GAME.
blue emu said:
I should really read the whole thing and plan out my response a bit better...
blue emu said:
I've never actually tried that as I do prefer to try to make it a little bit difficult for the US, but in MP I have played against someone who did that with the US. Of course, they had the same philosophy as FM+Full Hawk+StandingArmy = Domination.
Boy, did he ever lose...
Just because America might have 500 units, doesn't mean they can stand up to Germany's 300 SUPERIOR doctrine units.
Disclaimer: You must also play according to your strengths. Plus Germany's doctrines make ARM cheaper, so that helps to balance out the FM/CP question, which is what I meant by that...
This can only be looked at from a scientific point of view.
Free Market is geared more towards the people, meaning you don't have power yourself. You wussy. -10 manliness.
Central Planning is geared towards the government, giving you more power, but it also means the IC you have isn't enough for you. You wussy. -5 manliness.
Blue Emu isn't even human. But he's blue. And that rules. 0 manliness.
BiB is a smurf and is blue. The blue obviously copying off of Blue Emu. -1 manliness.
So, the choice is obvious.
Free Market is geared more towards the people, meaning you don't have power yourself. You wussy. -10 manliness.
Central Planning is geared towards the government, giving you more power, but it also means the IC you have isn't enough for you. You wussy. -5 manliness.
Blue Emu isn't even human. But he's blue. And that rules. 0 manliness.
BiB is a smurf and is blue. The blue obviously copying off of Blue Emu. -1 manliness.
So, the choice is obvious.
