Franconia

[Robotx2300]

The nation of Franconia should be a formable nation by central german nations like Wurzburg.

Franconia was a duchy during the middle ages that separated during the 13th century.

Other then actually living there and knowing this history first hand, here is a wikipedia source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Franconia

 

[Woifee]

If they put every duchy in the game that sometimes somwhere existed we would have a few hundreds only in the HRE.

More important would be nations wich actually existed in the timeframe of the game and aren't in yet.

 

[Sagif]

The HRE is extremely "divided" (sorry if it's not the best word to describe) as it is, adding all the kingdoms, duchy and any autonomous territory that there ever was in the HRE would destroy the borders in Europe... To have any expression (map-wise) you would have to conquer 10 provinces, boosting AE, making the HRE a place where no one want's to play...

 

[Robotx2300]

The HRE is extremely "divided" (sorry if it's not the best word to describe) as it is, adding all the kingdoms, duchy and any autonomous territory that there ever was in the HRE would destroy the borders in Europe... To have any expression (map-wise) you would have to conquer 10 provinces, boosting AE, making the HRE a place where no one want's to play...

The HRE has always been a divided, unfriendly place of ugly borders. But the fact of the matter is that this is exactly what happened historically. There aren't many "autonomous" kingdoms and duchies that don't already exist in the HRE. With the addition of Westphalia into the mix, I am a little upset that Franconia is over-looked so much.
I'd write a mod for it, but Localization is a pain in the ass, and I think I'd prefer it getting a little more representation in the game then a couple ideas hinting at it's existence.

 

[Woifee]

But Westphalia actually played an important role in the time frame of the game, franconia didn't.

No offense, but I can't recall any time the duchy of franconia was important. The Ryukyu Islands were much more important in this time than franconia.

 

[TheDungen]

But Westphalia actually played an important role in the time frame of the game, franconia didn't.

No offense, but I can't recall any time the duchy of franconia was important. The Ryukyu Islands were much more important in this time than franconia.

Westphalia lasted less then a century. It being in the game I can accept but one of the German cultures being named after a french satellite state is abomination.

 

[Woifee]

Westphalia lasted less then a century. It being in the game I can accept but one of the German cultures being named after a french satellite state is abomination.

That's totally true. You shouldn't be able to form it as german nation.

 

[Mattius]

But Westphalia actually played an important role in the time frame of the game, franconia didn't.

No offense, but I can't recall any time the duchy of franconia was important. The Ryukyu Islands were much more important in this time than franconia.

Nothing was ever more important than Ryukyu.

 

[Mattius]

That's totally true. You shouldn't be able to form it as german nation.

It is a German state today, though.

 

[Woifee]

It's also a region and there may have been a duchy, but the kingdom was created by napoleon, the king was his brother. There is no historical basis to go on to create the kingdom earlier as a german. The Idea of a kingdom of westphalia didn't exist before, as far as I know.

Nothing was ever more important than Ryukyu.

Ryukyu have been a major player in this region. They established a big trading empire, payed tribute to china, like japan but more often, the king was investated by the emperor of china. During the trade prohibitio policy they kept the trading network alive and smuggled a lot of goods. When the europeans came they wanted to take over that network.
One of their most requested goods have been salpeter and horses.

 

[Sagif]

The HRE has always been a divided, unfriendly place of ugly borders. But the fact of the matter is that this is exactly what happened historically. There aren't many "autonomous" kingdoms and duchies that don't already exist in the HRE. With the addition of Westphalia into the mix, I am a little upset that Franconia is over-looked so much.
I'd write a mod for it, but Localization is a pain in the ass, and I think I'd prefer it getting a little more representation in the game then a couple ideas hinting at it's existence.

That's true, but we can't have 200 provinces or more in the HRE, even if it is for the good of "historically accurate".

 

[Arag]

Here's the trick, Franconia in the EUIV time period was dead even as a concept.
The original duchy existed about thirty odd years, after that it dissolved into minor realms. The attempts to revive the title by the bishop of Würzburg failed. The same can be said about the attempts of the rulers of Ansbach. There is no historical reason to add Franconia to the game.

 

[Twoflower]

But you just gave the historical reason: forming Franconia was an ambition of several rulers in the EU4 timeframe. Albrecht Achilles of Brandenburg-Ansbach waged war against Nürnberg in 1449 exactly with the goal of reviving the Duchy in mind. Had Albrecht won that war, of course, it would not have been a given for the Emperor to grant that duchy or the other princes of the HRE to recognized his claim, but it would certainly have been possible.
Also, Bernhard von Sachsen-Weimar was actually promised the title of Duke of Franconia by Gustavus Adolphus, and had the title bestowed upon him by Oxenstierna in 1633.
A Duchy of Franconia is less fantasy and less anachronistic for the EU4 timeframe than, say, Romania, Italy or Germany - which is not to say that there are not many more important countries to be added. Just as an example, it would be much, much, much more crucial for an accurate representation of the Franconian region to have an independent Bamberg.

EDIT: As a reply to Sagif: you probably misunderstood the suggestion. Franconia would be a formable country and it would not exist at any startdate except maybe between 1633 and 1635 as a Swedish vassal, if we want to represent Bernhard von Sachsen-Weimar (which would be kinda cool).

 

[Sagif]

EDIT: As a reply to Sagif: you probably misunderstood the suggestion. Franconia would be a formable country and it would not exist at any startdate except maybe between 1633 and 1635 as a Swedish vassal, if we want to represent Bernhard von Sachsen-Weimar (which would be kinda cool).

Thank you, but still...
Adding every duchy that ever was or that someone had the ambitions to form would be ludicrous. There are many different nations inside the HRE within the EUIV time frame. Adding Franconia would lead to future demands, where exactly do we draw the line?

 

[Clonefusion]

Thank you, but still...
Adding every duchy that ever was or that someone had the ambitions to form would be ludicrous. There are many different nations inside the HRE within the EUIV time frame. Adding Franconia would lead to future demands, where exactly do we draw the line?

What Other Duchies Are there ?
The duchies of Bavaria, Saxony, thuringia Are ingame, only swabia and Franconia Are missing.

 

[Sagif]

What Other Duchies Are there ?
The duchies of Bavaria, Saxony, thuringia Are ingame, only swabia and Franconia Are missing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_in_the_Holy_Roman_Empire_(L)

 

[TheDungen]

It is a German state today, though.

Nortrhein westfalen is a bundesland. So Westphalia today is half a bundesland. And yet we have the culture whestphallic overcompensating to the exent that it covers at least three bundesländer.

 

[Twoflower]

Thank you, but still...
Adding every duchy that ever was or that someone had the ambitions to form would be ludicrous. There are many different nations inside the HRE within the EUIV time frame. Adding Franconia would lead to future demands, where exactly do we draw the line?

It may be a problem of tag economy/game performance, yes, and there are other countries that actually existed as independent entities within the HRE during most of the timeframe and already have provinces to represent them, which should have higher priority. I'm referring to:
- the bishopric of Bamberg
- the bishopric of Osnabrück
- the bishopric of Paderborn
- the bishopric of Ermland
- the bishopric of Cambrai
- the county of Hoya
- the Duchy of Jülich-Berg
- the principality of Calenberg (arguably)

I'm not saying that it would be realistic to add all these tags, just that these should be included before even thinking about adding formable Franconia and Swabia. In a perfect world with unlimited tags, being able to form these two would be nice, though.

 

[AndrejK]

What were trying to say that other states exist like Bavaria and Saxony. But Franconia is shattered to pieces. Make it a fromable nation so that states like Wurzburd or Nuremberg can form it..