''Francien'' colonies ?

[Blindbohemian]

So, Francien describes the language of northern France and is used to describe the culture of ... Northern France!

Because that also happens to be the primary culture of France, it becomes the culture of the colonies.

Why is this a problem, unexpected, or anything other than a normal part of any cultural Union in EU4?

It's a problem because it results in French colonies being called things like "Francien Brazil" and "Francien Mexico", which looks stupid.

The problem really (in my opinion) is that colonies are named after the culture, not the country. It causes no end of stupid names: Castilian West Indies instead of Spanish, English Mexico instead of British, and so on. Francien Brazil is a step up from Cosmopolitaine Brazil, yes, but it would be much better if it were just called French Brazil.

Other people pointed out that the colonies of, say, Sweden and Gotland in the Caribbean would both be called Swedish West Indies. It's kind of stupid.

I don't know why no one in this thread made it clear that they were complaining primarily about the issue in relation to the naming of colonies.

 

[Checco]

To summarize, I'm just saying that ''Francien'', which does not equal ''Français'' is not the best word to describe French colonists and French culture.

No harm meant, but of all the problems about introduced changes in this new patch, this one looks cosmetic to say the least.

 

[Jamey]

It's a problem because it results in French colonies being called things like "Francien Brazil" and "Francien Mexico", which looks stupid.

The problem really (in my opinion) is that colonies are named after the culture, not the country. It causes no end of stupid names: Castilian West Indies instead of Spanish, English Mexico instead of British, and so on. Francien Brazil is a step up from Cosmopolitaine Brazil, yes, but it would be much better if it were just called French Brazil.

Other people pointed out that the colonies of, say, Sweden and Gotland in the Caribbean would both be called Swedish West Indies. It's kind of stupid.

I don't know why no one in this thread made it clear that they were complaining primarily about the issue in relation to the naming of colonies.

I misunderstood what was being complained about. Oops.

 

[Noah11101]

It's a problem because it results in French colonies being called things like "Francien Brazil" and "Francien Mexico", which looks stupid.

The problem really (in my opinion) is that colonies are named after the culture, not the country. It causes no end of stupid names: Castilian West Indies instead of Spanish, English Mexico instead of British, and so on. Francien Brazil is a step up from Cosmopolitaine Brazil, yes, but it would be much better if it were just called French Brazil.

Other people pointed out that the colonies of, say, Sweden and Gotland in the Caribbean would both be called Swedish West Indies. It's kind of stupid.

I don't know why no one in this thread made it clear that they were complaining primarily about the issue in relation to the naming of colonies.

Not trying to be rude but in my games I see British Mexico, French Brazil, Spanish Peru, etc. The game as of El Dorado, I think, started using the nations denonym rather than culture. I do not use any mods that change colonial nation names. Another thing, in one of my games one of Spain's colonies inherited from a PU with Portugal revolted, then when the colony was beaten by Spain they changed their name and colour to match Spain, but kept Portuguese culture.

 

[Noah11101]

Here is the section of the code to prove my statement.
names = {
name = "COLONIAL_BRAZIL_Root_Culture_GetName_Brazil"
}
names = {
name = "COLONIAL_REGION_New_Root_GetName"
}
It looks like it does both.

 

[Wizzington]

CNs take their names primarily from the name of the country as of a patch or two ago.

 

[BaronNoir]

Oups, I meant to reply. In this case, that should be French, not Francien.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Undoable, noob! alt + 128/135 for Ç/ç

Not on Linux; there I don't think you can do it inside the game.

 

[Haccoude]

CNs take their names primarily from the name of the country as of a patch or two ago.

I'm guessing you aren't exactly hopeful of pleasing everyone considering that people complain about stuff you've already changed?

 

[Tom013]

I'm guessing you aren't exactly hopeful of pleasing everyone considering that people complain about stuff you've already changed?

After watching years of "discussion" about how the previous name used for that culture was inappropriate, I find this debate kind of exhausting. I wouldn't be surprised if Wiz felt the same way.

 

[Heinrikr]

Why not rename the cultural group instead? Something like Gaulish or Gallo-Latin or something along those lines, and just call the primary culture group French. I'm basing this off the Iberian culture group whose names everyone seems to agree on, if I'm wrong feel free to fill my inbox with death threats.

That is actually.. brilliant! Why hasn't it been done before? It seems so very obvious. Just rename the culture group to "Gallic" and rename francien to "french". so simple!

as for the iberians, I would rename that culture group to "spanish", which refers to hispania, which is what they would have identified with. Having it named "spanish" would make historical sense.

edit: on the spanish thing... Yes, there is a modern country named spain, but prior the foundation of spain, the entire peninsula was referred to as spain (or hispania, or españa, espanha, the same name in different languages), so naming the culture group "spanish" makes more sense. it does, in my view, add a bit more immersion, and it reminds us that spanish used to have a broader meaning.

 

[Haccoude]

After watching years of "discussion" about how the previous name used for that culture was inappropriate, I find this debate kind of exhausting. I wouldn't be surprised if Wiz felt the same way.

Oh god yes there were so many discussions about why Cosmopolitaine was the wrong name. The suggestion in those threads was to replace it with Francien (because French is supposed to also refer to the local variations and not just the Parisians + their neighbours). Now we have Francien, and people want Oil instead (reminder, it can't be French unless believe Gascons and Occitan aren't French).

 

[Heinrikr]

Oh god yes there were so many discussions about why Cosmopolitaine was the wrong name. The suggestion in those threads was to replace it with Francien (because French is supposed to also refer to the local variations and not just the Parisians + their neighbours). Now we have Francien, and people want Oil instead (reminder, it can't be French unless believe Gascons and Occitan aren't French).

I'm not an expert on this but if "french" means "frankish" one could make the case that gascons and occitans weren't french as such. Makes sense to me that the area where there's "francien" could be called french if we look at it that way, since it was the heart of the frankish kingdoms.

 

[BaronNoir]

No.

Frankish = Franc (except the money)

French = Français

 

[Willem IV]

I'm happy with the name change to Francien. Maybe not the best, but good enough. I can't bring a better solution to the table, and I do disagree on Oil.

I didn't play the game for the last two patches, came back after I bought Art of War on sale. But CN taking their names from the country instead of cultural is a great improvement.
This weekend I will look into the files, to see if there are still some old culture names left for them.

 

[Shadrol]

Well the core of the issue is that Paradox decided to use the primary culture of a nation to name colonial nations.

Instead, they should have used the demonym of the nation. This way, one would found "French Brazil" or "Byzantine Canada" or "British Colombia"

This is not entirely true. It's easy to overlook as mostly you get English, Castlillian, Portuguese or less likely Dutch, Breton, Norwegian colonies. In all those cases the demonym is the same as the primary culture. Except obvious things like "Spanish Brazil". There is no spanish culture. Or Hanseatic La Plata or Oldenburgian Colombia instead of both being Westphalian X.
The only exception seems to be France apparently.

 

[Assalander]

CNs take their names primarily from the name of the country as of a patch or two ago.

Indeed. I formed Netherlands from Flanders, so my primary culture is Flemish (but according to my accepted culture tooltip Netherlands is a Flemish+Dutch cultural union now), and while my trade companies get the Flemish prefix in their names, my colonial nations get the Netherlands ones (New Holland, Dutch West Indies, etc.).

 

[Gaamel]

I thought that France remained the most decentralized (outside of Germany) until the Sun King turned it into an absolutist state. And he basically had to fight a massive civil war (the Fronde) just to pull that off.

The centralization was a long-term process, it took Centuries. Basically France was very advanced under Phillipe le Bel (a king with an iron fist, he famously crushed the Templars and burned their Grandmaster in 1314). But the death of his 3 sons meant the end of the Capet (main line) dynasty and the beginning of the 100 Years War (due to the English claims on the throne), which reduced the king's authority for a long time. The end of the war reinforced the state, because a lot of land was seized from disloyal nobles.

Then the Wars of Religions divided the country again.

Louis XIV only managed to turn France into an absolutist state because he inherited what his predecessors left : a professional army, an efficient tax system, efficient ministers and civil servants, etc.

In France we often call the excessive centralization "jacobinism", which refers to what the Revolutionnaries achieved between 1789 and 1794. But these guys merely used the institutions left by the monarchy...

 

[Elfryc]

Indeed. I formed Netherlands from Flanders, so my primary culture is Flemish (but according to my accepted culture tooltip Netherlands is a Flemish+Dutch cultural union now), and while my trade companies get the Flemish prefix in their names, my colonial nations get the Netherlands ones (New Holland, Dutch West Indies, etc.).

That's because of the triggers in file common/colonial_regions/00_colonial_regions.txt
If there's a trigger like tag = NED, the pre-formated name will be used.
If there's not, then a partially randomly generated name will make use of your culture name.

 

[lougarou]

You said Francien describes the Oil language. I said Francien describes the Oil language. Now you disagree with me (and by extension yourself).

I'm just baffled. I really don't know what else to say.

Francien is, if anything, a word invented in the XIXth century. The word commonly used is français, français de Paris or event françois (pronounced frãswɛ). The translation of français in English is... French.