''Francien'' colonies ?

[BaronNoir]

It's a plus over Cosmopolitan, but while the word exist, it might not have the meaning intended by Paradox.

Francien describe the alleged Oil language (I'm super summarizing here, but in France, there was two ''families'' of languague : Oil in the north, Oc in the south. It's related to how ''Yes'' was said) for Paris and Ile-de-France. While it's true that many French colonies used perfect Parisian french at least in the official correspondance, Francien was never a term used by people from that time.

 

[Grand Historian]

Well, I'm pretty sure the Byzantines never called themselves Greek either, so we should just take what we can get and stop fussing over semantics.

Now, if you're proposing to improve (or add) colonial cultures, I'm all for that.

 

[BaronNoir]

If anything, they called themselves Romans.

I meant here that Francien is not an actual term to describe French culture or languague.

But I'm aware that Français is more than likely problematic, since the ''ç'' is undoable on many keyboard.

 

[Gustav91]

Undoable, noob! alt + 128/135 for Ç/ç

 

[jacobsighs]

Well the core of the issue is that Paradox decided to use the primary culture of a nation to name colonial nations.

Instead, they should have used the demonym of the nation. This way, one would found "French Brazil" or "Byzantine Canada" or "British Colombia"

 

[justin6477]

Well the core of the issue is that Paradox decided to use the primary culture of a nation to name colonial nations.

Instead, they should have used the demonym of the nation. This way, one would found "French Brazil" or "Byzantine Canada" or "British Colombia"

Exactly, imagine trying to distinguish between Swedish Carribean and Swedish Carribean, one founded by the Kingdom of Sweden and the other by Gotland. I mean, on the map, we've got color, but it's still a little too wonky for my taste. Alerts may also be questionable.

 

[BaronNoir]

Undoable, noob! alt + 128/135 for Ç/ç

Point taken.

But the issue is, Francien is only a supposed langague for medieval Ile de France. It's not a cultue.

 

[BaronNoir]

To summarize, I'm just saying that ''Francien'', which does not equal ''Français'' is not the best word to describe French colonists and French culture.

 

[hashinshin]

Serious question:

why not just call them French?

 

[BaronNoir]

Technically, if could be argued that 1430ish France was not yet populated with French people, but with Picards, Normands, Saintongeais, etc...

This said, every history book point out that short of England. France was by far the most centralized realm in Europe by the late middle ages. I mean, if there is a realm that desserve the demonym, it's certainly France.

 

[Lemont Elwood]

Technically, if could be argued that 1430ish France was not yet populated with French people, but with Picards, Normands, Saintongeais, etc...

This said, every history book point out that short of England. France was by far the most centralized realm in Europe by the late middle ages. I mean, if there is a realm that desserve the demonym, it's certainly France.

I thought that France remained the most decentralized (outside of Germany) until the Sun King turned it into an absolutist state. And he basically had to fight a massive civil war (the Fronde) just to pull that off.

 

[BaronNoir]

While centralization lapsed during a period of...unpleasanteries...called the Wars of Religion, France under the last Capetians (Philippe the Fair) the most powerful and centralized realm in Europe.

 

[Alliegorical]

Serious question:

why not just call them French?

Probably because French is also a culture-group; giving a culture the same name as the group it's in might be confusing... though it may still be better than the alternatives.

 

[spyroware1]

It should be French. Francien refers to the Loire-Seine oil dialects, the area that was the heartland of France, it is not an ethnonym. It's not remotely close to the Byzantines who a) never called their language "roman" b) were aware of the their demographic/culture history under the term Greeks and c) knew all too well that greek is for all intents and purpose the exonym everyone else calls them. This Francien is just pedantic bullshit.

Who cares if the parent group is also called French. I mean, we have Hungarian culture in a group called Magyar derp herp

 

[Alliegorical]

I mean, we have Hungarian culture in a group called Magyar derp herp

I seem to recall one of the devs recently saying that was likely to change in the future.

 

[Jamey]

Francien describe the alleged Oil language (I'm super summarizing here, but in France, there was two ''families'' of languague : Oil in the north, Oc in the south. It's related to how ''Yes'' was said) for Paris and Ile-de-France. While it's true that many French colonies used perfect Parisian french at least in the official correspondance, Francien was never a term used by people from that time.

So, Francien describes the language of northern France and is used to describe the culture of ... Northern France!

Because that also happens to be the primary culture of France, it becomes the culture of the colonies.

Why is this a problem, unexpected, or anything other than a normal part of any cultural Union in EU4?

 

[BaronNoir]

No, the French language for north of France would be ''Oil''

 

[Jamey]

Francien describe the alleged Oil language (I'm super summarizing here, but in France, there was two ''families'' of languague : Oil in the north, Oc in the south. It's related to how ''Yes'' was said) for Paris and Ile-de-France. While it's true that many French colonies used perfect Parisian french at least in the official correspondance, Francien was never a term used by people from that time.

No, the French language for north of France would be ''Oil''

You said Francien describes the Oil language. I said Francien describes the Oil language. Now you disagree with me (and by extension yourself).

I'm just baffled. I really don't know what else to say.

 

[BaronNoir]

It described ONE Oil language. There was several Oil languages.

 

[Biggie Smalls]

Why not rename the cultural group instead? Something like Gaulish or Gallo-Latin or something along those lines, and just call the primary culture group French. I'm basing this off the Iberian culture group whose names everyone seems to agree on, if I'm wrong feel free to fill my inbox with death threats.