I wonder, can you actually attack the Saarland in Hoi4, thus averting the collapse of Poland at least for a little while? In Hoi3 I tried, but the attacking penalties were just ridiculous so it didn't work,
France: to Maginot or not to Maginot?
- Thread starter seattle
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Hopefully the way AI works is dynamic rather than scripted. That way it's not like "GER AI will not declare war on USSR if Paris is not controlled" or whatever, but the AI actually doing a force analysis and saying "We need to many forces for the front in France to sustain offensive operations against the USSR."
A French attack into the Rhineland would possibly end the war quickly as the troops Germany had to defend it were 2nd rate and a large part of the German Industry was there.
We know that for the NF-Tree the AI is scripted to choose the historical option, IF the player also stays historical and you have choosen the historical game mode. (with "sandbox" being the other.)
As NF are there to guide the AI along a path, it could be more dynamic in its behavior.
I don't know, really - I rather think the game should account for a World War, not necessarily the historical one.
Let's say Gamelin is hit by a brick, decides to keep the reserve around, and forever discredits the blitzkrieg by stabbing its weak point (Guderian traveled tens of kilometres from the frontlines: a long corridor without supplies and without support that a reserve could have plugged dooming the armored corps, who even OTL had to refuel at civilian gas stations). Germany collapses, a democratic government is put into place... and the Soviet Union moves in, occupying the rest of Poland and maybe even East Prussia. Harsh words are said, the Red Scare surges, and one of the two sides starts shooting.
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Alternative reality is fun but, just assume I am Joe public and purchased a WWII game from steam, and I start a Game "single player" as USA start in 1936 and Germany doesn't whoop France, after spending a couple of hours building up USA, am I going to say gee that was creative from the software people, gee Manstien must have had an off day, or more likely think.... "where is actually is there any WWII involved in this"?
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Be careful what you wish for. If the AI does an accurate force analysis then Germany will never invade the USSR
Well, that's why there is a historical setting for the AI. It will only pick national focuses along a predetermined path. If all AI nations are following the historical script, you should get things fairly historical.
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Yeah, I was really hoping the omnidirectional forts would be something they would fix in HoI 4.
Realistically even if the Germans capture the Maginot it would be a thorn in their side due to having to clear the minefields, poor infrastructure, bottlenecks, etc.
I was also. However such a strong defensive line isn't just onlydirectional : most of the strenght is, but it should provide noticeable defense improve from the opposite/other sides also.
Some threads where I questioned the Maginot line in HoI4 :
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/maginot-line-accuracy.890339/
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...nd-fortifications.832053/page-2#post-18837395
France was still building and upgrading the Maginot line in 1936, so I hope this is reflected in HoI4.
Be careful what you wish for. If the AI does an accurate force analysis then Germany will never invade the USSR
If the goal is annexation then yes, but a more reasonable peace settlement is well within the bounds of possibility and I certainly hope the new AI will make good use of the new system (and remember an analysis of this type would not just include numbers)
Yeah, I was really hoping the omnidirectional forts would be something they would fix in HoI 4.
To an extent they are. Forts in HOI4 lose part of their bonus if they are attacked from multiple directions. The more directions the greater the reduction in effectiveness. If part of the Maginot line is breeched France will be able to counter attack with the Germans getting very little of the forts bonus. If Germany is able to exploit the breech and get behind neighbouring fortified provinces they will find it much easier to capture them.
Fortifications in real life are very rarely entirely focused in a single direction. Doing so would make them very easy to neutralize.
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But if I attack from the German side (with only one division and from 1 direction in this example) ther will be x bonus for France. When I bypass the Maginot line and attack from the french side the bonus will be the same. Which shouldn't be the case.
In WW1 Verdun the French took months to recapture Fort Douaumont, because it was omnidirectional. So the backside of the Maginot line was very weak. (The walls were only 1m thick, while the front had like 4m. Please correct me.) In case the german took over a bunker of the line, it would have been much easier for the French to take it back as there was almost no defense on this side.
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The fortification bonus should be next to nothing if you're attacking fortifications from the rear. All the guns are facing the other way (and bunkered guns can't turn around), the minefields and obstacles are on the other side, most firing ports are on the other side, etc. The people getting into and out of the bunkers cannot do so freely as most doors are facing the back. Basically all it's good for is some cover from artillery. The Maginot line was not built to withstand attacks from the French side, and since the Maginot is by far the most important line of fortifications in the HoI time period this should be reflected.
Yes the line was better suited to defending from the German side but not as much as you think. Have a look at lots of the images from the Maginot line, lots of turrets, things on roads have the ability to shoot both ways, high points with full 360 (or near to) fields of view/fire, etc...
There is a reason the Allies also chose to circumvent the line during their push to Berlin.
There is a reason the Allies also chose to circumvent the line during their push to Berlin.
It probably will be. There are always a few options for the campaign at the bottom of the screen (i.e., Lucky Nations in Europa Universalis 4).
Maybe the challenge for France going defensive is then not to win, but to make Germany pay the highest possible price before they win, thus helping the global war effort.
If Germany lose some material, but more importantly a fair amount of manpower, they will be hindered when continuing the war.
I've always extended the Maginot line and used it as a shield. It gave me a chance to build up my industry and armored forces. I'd take Libya, Sicily, and Sardinia in the meantime. Once my armored force was ready, I'd begin the liberation of Belgium and the Netherlands. Unfortunately, the Wonky supply system would hold me up. My armies would run out of supplies because I would Convoy supplies to Belgium's new capital in the Congo and Belgium would lake the resources to convoy them back to my armies near Antwerp. The germans would then push my out of supply army out of Belgium. A few months later, I would repeat the process.