France: tactics with Spain

[unmerged(44224)]

Another n00b question. As France, my plan with Spain is to vassalise them early and keep them in that state until mid 1700's. That way:

- I can concentrate on Europe and then the Middle East.
- I will get some of their income for a long time.
- When I finally do annex them, it should be easy to wipe out the New World natives and rival power's colonies.

Is this reasonable?

Also, it's about 1470 now. What happens if I was to FV / DA either Castile or Aragon? Would that stop Spain forming? What if I vassalised Castile, does that mean when Spain forms, Spain is my vassal?

Lastly, Grenada is still there, 2 provs on the Iberian peninsula. Is the stupid AI ever going to summon the skills to dispose of them or they going to sit there are pollute my future dominions forever?

 

[orimazd]

Spain should form regardless, if either Aragon or Castile exists when that time comes. You would have to diploannex both to avoid it. I wouldn't wait to diploannex them, and just taken their colonial lands yourself--its the AI, and it can't colonize. When it gets its ten thousand ducat windfall, IT SPENDS IT ON BECOMING THE COUNTER-REFORM CATHOLIC DEFENDER OF THE FAITH. Serious retardation if ever there was any.

 

[unmerged(51378)]

Spain should form regardless, if either Aragon or Castile exists when that time comes. You would have to diploannex both to avoid it. I wouldn't wait to diploannex them, and just taken their colonial lands yourself--its the AI, and it can't colonize. When it gets its ten thousand ducat windfall, IT SPENDS IT ON BECOMING THE COUNTER-REFORM CATHOLIC DEFENDER OF THE FAITH. Serious retardation if ever there was any.

Not idiotic. There's quite a bit of benefits.

 

[unmerged(45766)]

FV/DA Aragon early, as early as possible. FV Castile or Spain, but wait until 1505 to DA them, so you'll get the Andalusia CoT and their maps of that time.

When an AI country is vassalized, it really loses nearly half of its income. Half of the tax income is sent to the sovereign, and AI don't develop their infra and trade much, so their tax income is the biggest part of their income : losing half of it means they'll have less money to colonize, less money to invest in techs, but still great costs because of plethoric armies, and so even less money to colonize and develop.

Moreover, you get BB for colonies in diplo-annexations, it's not a very bright move IMHO.

 

[unmerged(44224)]

Moreover, you get BB for colonies in diplo-annexations, it's not a very bright move IMHO.

I accept your other points, but BB wouldn't be an issue if I'm already in BB wars, which I assume I will be late game going for a WC?

 

[unmerged(44224)]

So, consensus is, don't worry about getting Spain to kill the New World natives and colonise for me, take their lands and do the job myself?

 

[unmerged(45766)]

I accept your other points, but BB wouldn't be an issue if I'm already in BB wars, which I assume I will be late game going for a WC?

If your plan is a WC, don't vassalize Spain too soon. Wait, let them colonize and expand, and even help them to. Force-vassalize them some thirty years before the planned start of your WC-attempt.

So, consensus is, don't worry about getting Spain to kill the New World natives and colonise for me, take their lands and do the job myself?

If you're not gonna do a WC, yes, indeed. You're much better at colonizing and conquering pagans than the AI.

But rather than FV/DA Spain around 1480-1510 respectively, continue your fights with them, taking their colonies and TPs BB-free, the same as you'd do with Portugal. Look in the other thread (help of a newbie or a similar name) for how to do an early colonization.

 

[unmerged(1047)]

Without interfering in the creation of Spain too much, you can safely forcevassal Castile, but should leave Aragon seperate as they get vassaled to Castile by event in 1476. Then you just wait and they almost always merge (with Castile playing the lead, thus, you remain overlord).

As stated, it will throw the brakes on their colonization, but if that doesn't bother you, go ahead.

 

[orimazd]

Not idiotic. There's quite a bit of benefits.

Then why do they do it every month for ten months? There is no such thing as a CRC DotF in the game. Just to make sure what was happening, I was playing a CRC nation and declared myself defender of the faith. The next month the title was open to be declared again.

 

[unmerged(3931)]

Spain should form regardless, if either Aragon or Castile exists when that time comes. You would have to diploannex both to avoid it.

In order that Aragon is able to form Spain, Aragon must own Castilla (province 436).

#Viva España#
event = {

	id = 3554
	trigger = {
		owned = {
			province = 436
			data = -1
		}
		NOT = {
			exists = SPA
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = ARG

 

[unmerged(44224)]

It's all messed up on the Iberian peninsula.

It's around 1490. Spain has formed, but it's just formed from Castille. Aragon has 4 provs on the Iberian peninsula. Portugal has 4 provinces - one of Spain's rebelled and defected. And Granada is now 4 provinces as well! Worst. Spain. Ever. I think I'm going to have to go down there and mess Granada up at some point just to get Spain back on their feet.

 

[Underhand]

Spain will inherit Aragon in 1516 if the latter is the former's vassal, so there's hope yet. I use the word 'hope' loosely

 

[unmerged(44224)]

I don't think they are, I must check. Damn, this Spain is pathetic, I've never seen Granada school them so badly. More annoyingly, all 4 of Granada's provinces are now Muslim! Those are MY future provinces!

 

[SecondReich]

Yeah, Spain force-vassalized and pliant, and in an alliance is a very good strategic asset.

 

[unmerged(45766)]

Then why do they do it every month for ten months? There is no such thing as a CRC DotF in the game. Just to make sure what was happening, I was playing a CRC nation and declared myself defender of the faith. The next month the title was open to be declared again.

Indeed, CRC and reformism's DotF are bugged : countries can claim it but without effect, without being recorded doing it. And the AI systematically tries to claim it.

Spain will inherit Aragon in 1516 if the latter is the former's vassal, so there's hope yet. I use the word 'hope' loosely

If Spain is vassal of you and Aragon vassal of Spain, if you didn't have both Spain and Aragon in your alliance before 1476, or fail to keep them with you, they won't ally themselves on their own. And in 40 years, odds are quite high that they risk fighting each other, breaking the vassalization in the process.

 

[unmerged(44224)]

Yeah, Aragon is not a vassal of Spain now. I'm astonished at how much Spain is sucking right now.

 

[orimazd]

Don't be. They have a really bad king for a long time in the 1400s.Enrique, I think his name is.

 

[unmerged(45766)]

Yeah, Aragon is not a vassal of Spain now. I'm astonished at how much Spain is sucking right now.

If Aragon is not vassal of Spain in 1516, no inheritance.

 

[unmerged(44224)]

Yeah, Aragon is going to get DA'd.

 

[unmerged(49083)]

Enrique IV is bad, but when Castile/Aragon are supposed to be unified, Isabel and Fernando (Isabel y Fernando) come to power to make a super monarchy.