France One Faith 1.22

[superscunk]

Hey,
I'd finally like to get the One Faith achievement.
France seems an easy choice and I have restarted already a few times but never managed to get the Burgundian Inheritance.

I was wondering what would generally be an optimal start with France.
Basically, I always allied 4 electors + Castille and aimed for:
1. Emperor of HRE and then join HRE,
2. after which getting the double BI,
3. Poland getting PU over Lithuania to counter Russia/Ottos.

Now I'm not sure if this works out as well:
- vassalize England before reformation,
- get the same dynasty as Castille/Spain for PU. But do I actually want that considering they don't convert TC provinces?

I have also tried these options regarding the Surrender of Maine event:
- take no provinces but humiliate (for age objective), money, etc. Then use reconquest CB later.
- take cores despite AE/diplo points.
What would be the better strategy?

Not really sure what's doable and what an optimal start would look like.
Any suggestions?

 

[zmb]

I did my One Faith with Castile/Spain, which I strongly suspect is easier due to the extra missionary (more missionaries is the single most useful bonus), but likely a similar setup.

I ignored (western/central) Europe completely and no-CB'd Byzantium to vassalize them (didn't bother force converting them, although maybe I should've, they have decent One Faith ideas), and then went after the Ottomans. Once you have land in Anatolia you can start pushing south towards the Mameluks and east towards India, converting as you go.

I'm not sure it's worth bothering with the Empire; you don't need the bonuses once you're expanding in the East and in the lategame Imperialism will allow you to mop up any Protestants. But maybe I got lucky with Austria keeping the number of Prots down. The BI is helpful but not really necessary, you've got enough of a power base in France to not really need more Catholic territory.

I allied with the PLC as well, but beware that because they have high heretic tolerance, they won't bother to convert any of their land that flips. So I had to turn on them late, but it was worth it early.

 

[Sinuous]

Declare against England the first day you can for your cores. If you ally Castile and declare the same day they accept, you can get them to help with promise land. They are there to handle Portugal. You can take England on your own. I think they won't hate you either giving them no land in peace deal. Be sure to take Pate from England in peace deal. From there Britain and Ireland are easily taken. The Castile trick is gamey, but it's the fastest way to increase your power as France. I should note that I think Castile needs to rival England for this to work.

Also, try to get Sweden or Naples as a vassal using transfer subject option from peace deal. You can get this option from age bonus. Maybe not worth it if you are investing in HRE but something to think about.

I should also mention that you should drop alliance with Provence especially if rivaled with the Pope. Eat them when they get excommunicated. Be sure you have claims before truce timer ends. Well actually you don't need claims with CB but will reduce coring costs. You also have a decent chance getting the Curia yourself and you can often excommunicate Aragon as well as Provence since Pope frequently rivals both.

 

[Dominion]

Easiest way is and has always been to become Emperor and grab the vassal swarm.

You can create endless amounts of vassals in Europe who are going to core+convert all that Orthodox+Sunni land for you. Saves you at least a quarter of the world (and tons of annoying clicks).

And their integration at the end of the game will be free.

 

[superscunk]

Thanks for the ideas!

Byzantium:
Will think about the no-CB. I was actually planning the other route via Aragon->release Catalonia->feed them Tunis->Mamluks->Ottos.
Which would also have the benefit of a quicker route into coptic territory and Africa for AE spread.

England:
Is there a benefit of declaring before the event?
Sure, I get all my cores back one war earlier, but I also lose out on an easy defensive war which I could i.e. use to take Pale+humiliate.

Provence:
I always broke alliance the first day. But I have never managed to eat them before Papal States. But I guess if it's possible, I'll add that to my "optimal opening" list.

Naples/Sweden:
Thanks, I always forget about that age bonus and thus have never used it before!
I will try to take Sweden since they often turn protestant. I don't really care about Naples since they'll stay catholic.

@Dominion , vassal swarm is the reason I took France over Castille
And I really enjoy babysitting the HRE, it adds something to the game besides plain conquering.

 

[Dominion]

Hmm, someone else could chime in on that one, but iirc you get the full AE+WS in a defensive war whereas declaring yourself lets you make full use of the reconquest cb.

But I'm not sure. Haven't played France in a while. Anyone wanna confirm or correct?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I did my One Faith with Castile/Spain, which I strongly suspect is easier due to the extra missionary (more missionaries is the single most useful bonus),

Unless you are attempting one faith with stuff like Fetish, Hindu, or Judaism I have serious doubts that missionaries are "single most useful bonus". I'd rather still have reduced coring cost.

Shutting down Ottomans and opening a front in the Middle East should prove very useful though. Missionaries, ticking prestige, and one of the biggest c-blocks to Asia gone in one go sounds pretty helpful, and Anatolia is pretty rich.

 

[superscunk]

Hmm, someone else could chime in on that one, but iirc you get the full AE+WS in a defensive war whereas declaring yourself lets you make full use of the reconquest cb.

But I'm not sure. Haven't played France in a while. Anyone wanna confirm or correct?

You are correct. For that reason I would only take Pale+humiliate in the defensive war. Then use reconquest in a second/third war while already owning Pale. That was the idea but not sure if I’m missing something since it was suggested to declare right at start and beat the event.

 

[SPAMbuca]

Hmm, someone else could chime in on that one, but iirc you get the full AE+WS in a defensive war whereas declaring yourself lets you make full use of the reconquest cb.

But I'm not sure. Haven't played France in a while. Anyone wanna confirm or correct?

Yup, you basically have no discounts or modifiers in a defensive war. In fact, if someone declares a trade war, insult, or humiliation cb war, the defender can still take your land if he wins.

 

[Hessian Mercenary]

Byzantium:
Will think about the no-CB. I was actually planning the other route via Aragon->release Catalonia->feed them Tunis->Mamluks->Ottos.
Which would also have the benefit of a quicker route into coptic territory and Africa for AE spread.

England:
Is there a benefit of declaring before the event?
Sure, I get all my cores back one war earlier, but I also lose out on an easy defensive war which I could i.e. use to take Pale+humiliate.

Catalonia might be nice for some almost AE free reconquests against Aragon but their national ideas are garbage. They neither have something to help converting nor something to help coring, feeding them North Africa will only make them dysfunctional quickly. Better to go Byzantium -> Ottomans to kill them before they grow. Unlike North Africa you can also add Ottoman provinces to the Empire to pass reforms more quickly (might even let Austra pass first reform by increasing their Authority, because then they will be at zero again so you'll have an easier time getting elected yourself if you time it right)

England usually quickly gets War of the Roses disaster, makes your reconquest war easier the earlier you do it. Also if you want to no CB Byzantium it's a race against the clock before Ottomans take them (well in most games, sometimes they just don't seem to care) and you don't have any control over when Maine event actually fires

Put together idea would be to declare reconquest ASAP, see if you can find some allies like Castile to help you out by promising land. Once you control all continental provinces you can start shipping your expeditionary corps to Byzantium while keeping another army in France to defeat small english stacks trying to land (wouldn't count on AI allies doing that for you reliably)

 

[ElGranCapitan]

If you get declared with the Maine event your alliance isn't strong enough. England will cede Maine if they think they can't win. You shouldn't be fighting that war, at all. you should declare with reconquest cb for greatly reduced ae exactly when you hit tech 4 as that allows you to win easily against both England and Portugal without allies or going into debt.

I'd also suggest no-cb Byz over Aragon. I tend to babysit Spain so that they form and then PU them rather then destroy them, they always serve me well. Spain under a PU means you can ignore the new world, just subsidise their colonies

You could go for a fast PU on Provence as they start with your dynasty (warn Savoy and the Pope to keep them alive). Being a senior in a PU allows you to freely switch your dynasty without danger of falling under PU yourself, thus making the Spain PU much easier (spreading your dynasty is tedious and luck based, getting someone elses dynasty on your throne really easy, just disinherit when your king is 70)

Also babysit the PLC (aka protect them from Russia and Lituanian Pretender rebels) and farm monarch points from elections, you can get quite a bit of diplo rep (national ideas, diplo, influence, pope mana, advisor, missions) allowing you to reliably win them. Also Commonwealth is like 1000dev for free when you PU them.

 

[Sinuous]

Thanks for the ideas!


England:
Is there a benefit of declaring before the event?
Sure, I get all my cores back one war earlier, but I also lose out on an easy defensive war which I could i.e. use to take Pale+humiliate.

As others said, you don't get reduced AE from retaking cores in a defensive war. If you can get Castile to join you promising land with the trick I mentioned, it's an easy war. You don't have to invade England at all. Just stack wipe every time they drop off men in Labourd. Sometimes they'll start invading Castile, but usually isn't a big deal. You can leave one core behind in exchange for Pate if you can't get enough warscore or just want to end the war sooner. Humiliating for extra monarch points is great, but it's so much free development easily taken at the beginning of the game. It gives a big money and power boost early game. I usually rival Aragon and humiliate them since I don't take much land from them in the first war.

But the other strategies people have mentioned are interesting and perhaps more effective. It's just how I like to start as France since more power early gives you more flexibility.

One other thing worth considering is diplo-vassalizing East Frisia. It gets you in range of making claims against Denmark. And you are in range of a bunch of HRE minors that you can use religious CB after reformation hits. The denmark one isn't as critical since you can declare war on norway using claims you get after conquering Scotland, but it's still handy. It eats up a diplo slot and hurts your dip reputation when you annex, but l think it's still worth a consideration. Maybe not worth it if going for Emperor since you want to use your diplo slots to ally electors. If not going for Emperor, then I think it's worthwhile since you want to expand around the HRE.

 

[superscunk]

Thank you all for explaining!

I understand why reconquest on England is more efficient. The no-CB Byzantium also makes sense now.
I'll give it a try and see if I can get the timing for all this right.

If everything works out, the only luck based parts are PLC forming and double-BI. That shouldn't require too many restarts.

Quite a few relation slots:
- alliances: 4x electors (I can probably ditch one after i get voted Emperor) + Castille
- vassals/PUs: Byzantium, Provence?, Sweden? England?

Ok then, starting up the game now!

 

[Dominion]

Dunno if people still do it, but you used to just vassalize electors.
Never liked it. Always tried to keep relations high and avoided AE in the HRE, but you're not getting punished too hard as Emperor France.

Feed Byz, reconquest England, get elected > 1st reform
Add French mainland to the HRE > 2nd reform
Feed Byz some more, take Iberia in the meantime and vassalize Portugal
Conquer that ugly, ugly Berber land + one re-election > 3rd reform
-> Alternative paths here include taking the rest of GB and invading Scandinavia. Really a matter of preference. The HRE path allows you to play a lot more relaxed and freely during your first century than, say, a fetishist OF
- Integrate Byz > 4th reform

Russia is worth two whole reforms all on its own, doesn't create AE and never puts up a fight.

And with Erbkaisertum you don't care about electors anymore.

 

[atwix]

i'll refer to two threads where i advised people on french one faith.

both have TON of useful info.

you only got to take into account ming tributary, as the threads are from before that age.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/one-faith-achievement-run.955148/ @SPAMbuca french one faith advice thread

and another one:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/ye-olde-france-wc-1st-attempt.956170/

 

[ElGranCapitan]

If you can't become emperor for double BI releasing Burgundy and reconquest also works really well, you can take 100% warscore for like 20-something AE from Austria, even though it's in the HRE. Burgundy gets cores on all their PUs during the inheritance. Integrating with Admin/Influence policy isn't that expensive
AE wise that's probably cheaper than vassalizing electors, so if you aren't going for emperor, I'd just ally all electors prior to the reconquest war and dismantle the HRE (reducing the AE from the reconquest war even more), let them kill each other while you go through Anatolia into India/China and then come back around 1650/1700 to kill the blobs that survived

 

[superscunk]

@atwix ,thank you for the links!
SPAMbuca 's opening looks really nice. The strategy of (over-)feeding Burgundy is great


I just tried the suggested Byz opening which also gave me Athens as vassal so I'm 3 over relations limit (4x electors, Castille, Byz+Athens).
That would leave me 10 years before I can integrate Athens and free a relation slot, 2-3 not-so-easy and far away wars to feed Byz before integrating them and adding that land to HRE. Which will only be possible if Ragusa adds itself to HRE, I think?
All this while taking out England/Ireland/Scotland.
And then I haven't even touched Denmark/Sweden (or Africa).
Is all this even doable before reformation? SPAMbuca's screenshot of 1508 makes me doubt that.

 

[SPAMbuca]

I'm not sure overfeeding Burgundy works anymore. They tend to accept much less territory these days. But you can at least still feed them Calais and parts of Liege/Provence/Lorraine.

 

[Hessian Mercenary]

You could break alliance with Castile, they did their job. Also 3 electors are often enough, as especially Bohemia likes to vote for themselves after their regency ends, but Brandenburg and Saxony also sometimes vote for themselves if they don't like Austria. In case of a tie the country with higher prestige wins, shouldn't be a problem to get prestige high through wars.

See if you can find new allies like Hungary or Poland-Lithuania to fight Ottomans. Also check Venice, you can expand HRE to Balkans via Dalmatia. Set Negroponte and Crete as vital interest so your vassals will fabricate a claim to get a CB. Venice is not a member of the HRE so war shouldn't be too difficult.

You don't attack British isles, Scandinavia and Ottomans at the same time. You fight a war on one front, get as much war score and long truce as possible, then ferry troops over to next front, rinse and repeat. I'm not even sure you need to focus on Scandinavia that early. It was funny when the age objective to transfer subjects for half war score was bugged and didn't give any AE Personally I'd focus more on Ottomans. They are beatable early, but when they take their cores back, get janissaries and start attacking Mamluks things go downhill fast.

 

[superscunk]

I failed miserably with more than 200 provinces left to convert.
But that was due to really bad planning and actually continuing from a far optimal start.

One thing I never could figure out:
When I release a vassal what determines their religion?
Does all their land need to be catholic or only their (random?) capital province?

I’m also not sure which is better: staying a monarchy for +1 missionary or going revolutionary to force convert heathens.
I chose latter in my failed run. But i.e. India region all nations have tolerance of heathens making force conversions useless.