France needs to gtfo of Iberia.

[Slaxl]

Not sure what overseas mean in this context - but if it works as I think it does, then this would also prevent (in the 1066 scenario) HRE and Denmark from going after Pomerania and Pomeralia, correct?

If a christian Duke of that dukedom already exists in one province of the Duchy then no the HRE won't go after them, but there are plenty of lands where there are no christian rulers off to the east. In fact, correct me if i'm wrong but there aren't any pagan provinces with a christian duke at the start, so it won't be a problem in that respect. I hope, anyway.

 

[pewpewlasers]

As Scotland, France asks me to join their new war against one country or another at least once a year(usually more). I have no idea how they are able to keep their vassal armies raised for their endless war against everyone without their vassals caring. Mine start getting pissy if I have their troops out for more than a few weeks.

 

[Beagá]

I think leaders´ stats are too good in CK2 overall. That could explain why all the big players have so little trouble with revolts (HRE, England, Byzantine Empire, France etc).

 

[Therlun]

wouldn't France just aim lower and go after Granada? Also would it stop the obscene fixation the African emirates have with Catalonia and Sicily?

Indeed. France will probably just conquer Valencia and everything south and west of it in the first few months of the game.

 

[unmerged(179107)]

In my games they usually conquer some bits around Barcelona, but get pushed out of Iberia rather quickly.

 

[raw]

I think leaders´ stats are too good in CK2 overall. That could explain why all the big players have so little trouble with revolts (HRE, England, Byzantine Empire, France etc).

This is very true. With Philip Calet, once you're 16 start holding feats, fairs and hunts like no other and reap in those titles. You can easily have everyone at 100 and pass all the laws you like + reshuffle the political landscape.

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

I am just 100 years into my first game and France conquered Some eastern and northern ibrerian holdings too, but now is completely gone from Ibera on the map.... How? Simple. It inherited Leon, took it as primary titel and is now a big brown western European blob. Looks like France might got to a another dynasty soon though again and break it up. This game is really fun, i have been sitting around as the count of Niederbayern for 100 years now and nothing really happened with my dynasty and it still is entertaining.

 

[Bloodmerchant]

Here's a better idea, put Frankish and Norman out of the Latin cultural group. Add Catalan into the Latin cultural group.

And the Byzantines never lose in 1066. They conquered the entire Caucasus and Levant in several of my games. The reason for this is because the Georgians, Armenians and Alans should belong in a separate cultural group.

 

[Brannart]

I've seen them only take one or two counties, on average.

 

[marcist]

In my game they're also running rampant in Iberia. It's kind of annoying. I don't mind that it happens, but if it happens too often - i.e. a rule rather than an exception - then maybe its Iberian aggression should be toned down a bit

 

[unmerged(143725)]

I am playing Castilla - and France has conquered a bit of Valencia. I must say, it really helps me because everytime the Frenchies invade (several times already in the first 40 years) I can have a go myself as whatever muslims are attacked, they will be fighting on multiple fronts.

France got the Baleares islands too by the way.

Guess we shouldn't complain THAT much about it. in 1106, Leon has most of what is now Portugal, and you could argue Leon should gtfo of Portugal...

 

[Rabid Bogling]

There's a solution. Remove the Holy War cassus belli completely and give appropriate claims to those characters neighbouring pagan and muslim states. Apullia to Sicily, Lubeck and Brandenburg to Mecklenburg, Poland to Pomeralia. that kind of thing. Not ideal. Worse, for some. Countries will sweep one another off the map early on and then remain stagnant for several decades. But at least it avoids the current proto-colonialism of France and HRE.

 

[Neoptolemos]

Here's a better idea, put Frankish and Norman out of the Latin cultural group. Add Catalan into the Latin cultural group.

And the Byzantines never lose in 1066. They conquered the entire Caucasus and Levant in several of my games. The reason for this is because the Georgians, Armenians and Alans should belong in a separate cultural group.

I just tried to "like" this. I need to spend less time online.

 

[Jak9090]

sounds great doomdark thanks alot

 

[KonradRichtmark]

Another solution would be to make the Iberian taifas harder targets. In CK1 pretty much all Muslim states began with tech level 3 in everything to represent their relatively higher level of development; and though the entire Islamic world wasn't ahead of Western Europe, Andalusia most definitely was, being pretty much the high point of medieval Islamic civilization (though the caliphs in Cairo and Baghdad will take offense at such an allegation ).

 

[Captain Gars]

Another solution would be to make the Iberian taifas harder targets. In CK1 pretty much all Muslim states began with tech level 3 in everything to represent their relatively higher level of development; and though the entire Islamic world wasn't ahead of Western Europe, Andalusia most definitely was, being pretty much the high point of medieval Islamic civilization (though the caliphs in Cairo and Baghdad will take offense at such an allegation ).

The Muslims used to be much stronger compared to the Christians, but this just resulted in either A) They took all of Iberia and two-thirds of France within 100 years, or B) They wiped the smaller Christian Kingdoms in Iberia and then Franc and the HRE had to come and save the day. Both versions, were in my opinion, much worse than what we have today - and the present situation was far from easy to get to balancing wise.

 

[Damocles]

Ok so that's not a great solution. Is there anything we can do? Maybe something to give France a reason to hold back? Upping the fear the young king has of his rebellious vassals? I know there are people who say France doesn't invade Iberia in their games but I've tested it, and I've started a dozen games and every single time France goes straight for Spain. Granted I'm sure 100 years down the line the random variations kick in and sometimes France will lose, sometimes it'll fall apart, while it's never happened in one of my two proper games so far I don't doubt that will be the case some times, but shouldn't France be less gung-ho about invading Spain right from the start in the first place? I'm sure there's a simple solution that will keep everything as it is except for France invading Spain at the start.

As RedRooster mentioned, Toulouse and Aquitaine should be independent at the start, which would solve a lot of the problems related to the blue blob.

I was a pretty vocal proponent of that being done, during the beta. However, there were those who strongly disagreed with me, and it remains the same. Will I mod it in my own games? Yes. Although, I'm giving CK2 a little bit of time to evolve post-release before I worry too much.

This is the real problem, there really isn't a reason for France to keep out of Iberia. When I play someone in France(Duke or King), my day one opening move is always to attack the weak northern muslim states. If we find a good gameplay mechanic to keep France out of Iberia, it would be simple to wire the AI to do the same as well.

Gameplay mechanic wise, the reason that the French stayed out of Iberia, was because they had much more difficulties closer to home for the first couple hundred years. There is absolutely no reason at all, whether logical or historical, to keep a strong and unified France (as shown in 1066) from marching over the Alps. About the only gameplay mechanic to affect it would be the general nature of attrition, army mobilization and retaining foreign lands being as easy as it is.

But the basic reason why our illustrious 1066 French forebears did not set up a Franco-Iberian empire in the 11th Century was because the French Roi was still dreaming of the day his authority would even be imposed on the Occitan world. Something that didn't really happen until the Albigensian Crusade, centuries later.

But so long as there is determination to keep the duchies of Aquitaine and Toulouse as direct vassals of the French Roi at game start, this will stay as is. Since doing so basically removes a hundred and fifty years of struggle. With Burgundy as well, I might add, which persisted past even CK2's time frame.

 

[HKFlash]

The Muslims used to be much stronger compared to the Christians, but this just resulted in either A) They took all of Iberia and two-thirds of France within 100 years, or B) They wiped the smaller Christian Kingdoms in Iberia and then Franc and the HRE had to come and save the day. Both versions, were in my opinion, much worse than what we have today - and the present situation was far from easy to get to balancing wise.

There is also the problem that France keep raising levies and declaring wars and its vassals won't rebel which simply doesn't make sense. No vassal likes a war spammer liege.

 

[KonradRichtmark]

The Muslims used to be much stronger compared to the Christians, but this just resulted in either A) They took all of Iberia and two-thirds of France within 100 years, or B) They wiped the smaller Christian Kingdoms in Iberia and then Franc and the HRE had to come and save the day. Both versions, were in my opinion, much worse than what we have today - and the present situation was far from easy to get to balancing wise.

I understand. But certainly they could be made a bit stronger, just so they can at least hold the line rather than get reconquista'ed from the very start?

 

[Telemnor]

There is also the problem that France keep raising levies and declaring wars and its vassals won't rebel which simply doesn't make sense. No vassal likes a war spammer liege.

This.

There should be huge penalties for being constantly at war. Particularily if you started them.