France is broken. AI imbalance?

[DigohD]

Hello!

France is broken. I'm currently playing as Tuscany and I am pretty close to uniting all of Italy. We are a coalition of me (top 5 army), a strong great britain, a strong Spain, a strong Austria (Emperor and annexed Burgundy) and numerous other nations. Pretty much all the major powers in western Europe. We are always at double army size when the wars break out, France just stomps us every single time.

Don't get me wrong. I was a big fan of EU3 and I never complained about France being op before. Sure, they were always very powerful (Which is fine by me btw), but they were not unstoppable. I just feel that in EUIV France gets to powerful way to fast if no one stops them early. The new core system let them unite all of France in no time and then they start expanding in all directions. I like to play smaller nations and as such can't really do anything until it's to late.

I do not think this is due to that they have an edge when it comes to actual resources. I just think that the France AI is superior to the other nations'. When I watch France coordinate it's armies in a very beautiful fashion, not taking any stupid risks and always keeping armies of the right size at the right places, I can't help but thinking that something is seriously wrong. My allies act like idiots, sending armies to their death and they don't seem to have an overall strategy at all. The problem seems to be that allied AI nations play as if they were alone and do not take their allies in consideration most of the time.

IF all countries in the game share the same AI then it must be optimal for France's gameplay. I just don't see how this scenario ends up in a french win every single time. The game sessions where France get a good start just turns to shit. I do not want to play passively for 200 years, waiting for Spain and GB to catch up. It ruins the game.

Other than that I think the game is a masterpiece, probably the best strategy game ever developed.

 

[Ruanek]

Every country has the same AI. With that said, the AI doesn't seem to be particularly good at fighting as part of an alliance against a larger power.

France has some great national ideas that improve their army strength, too.

 

[Seelensturm]

Sounds historical plausible. The player can achieve this with nearly every nation, why shouldn't it the AI from time to time with the strongest nation? You can still turn off lucky nations and decrease difficulty. AI needs some tuning (and will always need) anyway.

 

[pizzaiolo]

I agree, France does seem OP. HOWEVER, I am currently in a game where Spain has taken over 4-5 provinces in southern France, over the course of a few wars. With that said, FRA still has MASSIVE manpower reserves. I'm Austria and have been dominated by their superior numbers and army. Luckily, it only happened once, and they just wanted to reclaim two Savoyard provinces.

 

[murlocmancer]

If i am not mistaken France fought all of Europe and nearly won. I would call it historical...

 

[Syphus]

If i am not mistaken France fought all of Europe and nearly won. I would call it historical...

Yea, but History only counts in this game when people want it to.

I would suggest the OP read one of the 850 other threads on dealing with France.

 

[Felicity]

Hence why it's always awesome to get them down to desperately raising mercenaries while being torn apart by rebels.

It only took a copious amount of mercs myself though..

 

[Umega]

In my games, I always see AI France collapse under large coalitions. I would like to see France defend its lands properly.

 

[MiracleTortoise]

I am yet to see France fail. Or Poland, for that matter. And I'm on my 20th odd game.

 

[Zander]

Historically, France was a dominant power in Europe... but not by 1475. In my experience, the chief issue with EU4 is that none of the things that held France back (by 150 years!) are a factor at all.

 

[Summercat]

Historically, France was a dominant power in Europe... but not by 1475. In my experience, the chief issue with EU4 is that none of the things that held France back (by 150 years!) are a factor at all.

What were some of these things? Can they be enumerated?

 

[GamingHUD]

Hello!

France is broken. I'm currently playing as Tuscany and I am pretty close to uniting all of Italy. We are a coalition of me (top 5 army), a strong great britain, a strong Spain, a strong Austria (Emperor and annexed Burgundy) and numerous other nations. Pretty much all the major powers in western Europe. We are always at double army size when the wars break out, France just stomps us every single time.

Don't get me wrong. I was a big fan of EU3 and I never complained about France being op before. Sure, they were always very powerful (Which is fine by me btw), but they were not unstoppable. I just feel that in EUIV France gets to powerful way to fast if no one stops them early. The new core system let them unite all of France in no time and then they start expanding in all directions. I like to play smaller nations and as such can't really do anything until it's to late.

I do not think this is due to that they have an edge when it comes to actual resources. I just think that the France AI is superior to the other nations'. When I watch France coordinate it's armies in a very beautiful fashion, not taking any stupid risks and always keeping armies of the right size at the right places, I can't help but thinking that something is seriously wrong. My allies act like idiots, sending armies to their death and they don't seem to have an overall strategy at all. The problem seems to be that allied AI nations play as if they were alone and do not take their allies in consideration most of the time.

IF all countries in the game share the same AI then it must be optimal for France's gameplay. I just don't see how this scenario ends up in a french win every single time. The game sessions where France get a good start just turns to shit. I do not want to play passively for 200 years, waiting for Spain and GB to catch up. It ruins the game.

Other than that I think the game is a masterpiece, probably the best strategy game ever developed.

The coalition AI is a little wonky but it is the same for everyone. France derives alot of its strength from its national ideas. Once they unlock Elan, they kick into overdrive, so you need to beat them down and then when they are down keep kicking them before they get Elan.

 

[Syphus]

What were some of these things? Can they be enumerated?

The French Wars of Religion would be a big one. I think there are actually events in the game that model this, but they just must not be enough. (I've never played France)

 

[jaava]

What were some of these things? Can they be enumerated?

Traditional feudalism in France broke down gradually during the game's time frame. In the beginning of the game monarch's power in France is nearly nonexistent which is represented by divided France. However in game France unifies easily and can start steamrolling everything right away.

 

[Demon Firebrand]

I do not think this is due to that they have an edge when it comes to actual resources. I just think that the France AI is superior to the other nations'. When I watch France coordinate it's armies in a very beautiful fashion, not taking any stupid risks and always keeping armies of the right size at the right places, I can't help but thinking that something is seriously wrong. My allies act like idiots, sending armies to their death and they don't seem to have an overall strategy at all. The problem seems to be that allied AI nations play as if they were alone and do not take their allies in consideration most of the time.

IF all countries in the game share the same AI then it must be optimal for France's gameplay. I just don't see how this scenario ends up in a french win every single time. The game sessions where France get a good start just turns to shit. I do not want to play passively for 200 years, waiting for Spain and GB to catch up. It ruins the game.

Huge ongoing problem with Allied AI. My allies have been totally useless in every war, whether I started it or joined theirs. They position themselves in areas where they take attrition, they don't pursue the objectives, they engage very poorly, don't team up to take on larger armies, it's a mess.

France isn't broken, it is supposed to be strong and it simply is seeing an exaggerated benefit to being one of the largest, most powerful and independent countries due to allied AI being so pitiful.

 

[Tacticus101]

Im playing a game as Tuscany, but have already unified Italy, I beat France twice.

I usually find that a Coalition against them is not much use other than to distract armies and siege provinces (and very occasionally help you in a battle).
France has the largest force limit in Europe early game and massive manpower reserves, I regularly see them (early game) with 2 or more stacks of 30+units. No other AI seems to field armies as large as them and even multiple nations rarely seem to put that many units in one province (at which point France just avoids them).
So the gigantic coalition, with triple the total army size invades France from every side, blockading every port and sieging every border province. Then France, with its good leaders, better military tech and a few idea's runs around with its stacks of 30 murdering all the armies half the size one by one. Hence, despite being outnumbered in total, greater concentration of force means the AI never seems to defeat them unless they can wear down all the French manpower or drag the war out long enough that rebels start popping up.
As a Human player I find the only way to win is to defeat the main French armies yourself and then let your allies hunt down the smaller armies. As Italy (and Burgandy) I got two stacks of ~20, one next to the other (Italy has some wonderful mountains for defence). France will attack one of them with its larger army, at which point you move your other force in and defeat them. I kept doing that until I managed to corner he armies one by one and completely destroy them, at which point the carpet of coalition forces could do the rest.

I do think that the AI needs improvements when fighting against larger armies, it needs to stack allied forces and reinforce on-going battles more.

 

[DanaDark]

My very first game in EU4, I won every single war I had with France. I played as Brandenburg and formed Prussia.

In my game, Sweden took Norway and Denmark, and then came under a PU with France. Alone, I was able to defeat the two (long wars, mainly gaining wins through battles). At the end of my game, they were integrated... hadn't tried a war since that happened.

 

[NightKev]

I just think that the France AI is superior to the other nations'. When I watch France coordinate it's armies in a very beautiful fashion, not taking any stupid risks and always keeping armies of the right size at the right places, I can't help but thinking that something is seriously wrong. My allies act like idiots, sending armies to their death and they don't seem to have an overall strategy at all. The problem seems to be that allied AI nations play as if they were alone and do not take their allies in consideration most of the time.

Well, the AI is bad at coordinating with player armies because, of course, it can't "read your mind" like it can other AIs; it's possible it gets bugged to where it treats all other nations on its side of the war as players, thus causing a massive abnormal lack of coordination, I suppose.

 

[nindustrial]

Huge ongoing problem with Allied AI. My allies have been totally useless in every war, whether I started it or joined theirs. They position themselves in areas where they take attrition, they don't pursue the objectives, they engage very poorly, don't team up to take on larger armies, it's a mess.

France isn't broken, it is supposed to be strong and it simply is seeing an exaggerated benefit to being one of the largest, most powerful and independent countries due to allied AI being so pitiful.

This sounds about right to me from my few observations.

 

[Thundarr]

The reason France seems so strong is that they always go for the defensive idea group first, which for AI is far and away the best idea group (for players it's a toss up with diplomacy). This is compounded by the fact that being a lucky nation allows France the military points to fill up this idea group very rapidly as they (like players) have almost nothing else to spend military points on.