France and HRE in Iberia and North Africa

[Alerias]

There are countless other threads about how the muslims are overpowered and dominate Iberia, and often France. So which is it?

Its both. The issue lies with the weakness of Christian Spain and the AI priorities of the big Christian nations.

 

[hannibal_barca]

Its both. The issue lies with the weakness of Christian Spain and the AI priorities of the big Christian nations.

I think it also has to do with the restriction on jihads after 1187. In all my games after 1.07b, the north africans and iberians are being dominated by HRE and France, time and again. I was just playing a game as the almovarids (morrocco) and HRE empire came in after it annexed most of north africa (neo-vandalism) and France after it had taken over Iberia and just kept throwing 30k stacks at me and I won one phyric victory but then it was over. Why the hell can HRE just dominate north africa like that. They need to make HRE internal factions strong and decentralized. Besides the lowborn/retinue general spam, this issue of HRE taken over north african all the time is really game-breaking.

 

[unmerged(362834)]

So far, I've started four 1.07b games... finished 0.

Each time, HRE take over north africa. In my last game, HRE attacked before 1090 or so!!!

In that game, I picked the Almoravids to see if Muslims stand a chance against HRE's 25k warriors! no way! I had to use the consol, to switch to the HRE ruler and then offer white peace! I've done the same to save christian kindoms in Iberia.

Now, it's around 1200... North africa is unified, christian kingdoms in Iberia are unified! the HRE tried to take the baleares islands from a little muslim emir, but I steped up in the war after I assassinated their ruler, hoping there will be a succession crisis or factions spread!

But France is bringing it on, and there is a serious faction spread in north africa! I'm still in control but it's getting harder!

 

[Vittra]

I feel there should be a distance-based penalty for non de jure rulers, so that if you grow slowly along your borders, you might be stable but if you try to hold on to multiple duchies far away, you're gonna have a hard time. That would make for much more historically plausable developments, while being a great incentive to giving kingdoms away, witch I think should happen more. If, say Sweden won a crusade for Jerusalem, It's not really historically plausable that it would remain a part of Sweden, eventually becomming a de jure part of Sweden. But if it's all about the dynasty, and the kingdom still stays in the family, it's still an enormus victory. The same goes for Frace in Iberia. The most likely thing to happen would be that if for example Castille or Leon would be conquered by France, it would be given away to a prominant member of the dynasty.

Now, the HRE is a problem in it self, though, since it never was what the game treats it like, a true Empire. It was an on and of relationship more than anything else. So that it's so stable in the game annoyes me. I don't know how that could be fixed, though.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

If you care about keeping Europeans out of the Maghreb and Libya, you would need a way to have Berber raiders spawn at the edge of the Sahara desert and challenge the Christian lords. Like persistent small-scale Mongols. Since the local troops would most of the time be away fighting for their distant king in France or Germany, Berber invasions ought to have an easy time restoring muslim rule.

 

[hannibal_barca]

So far, I've started four 1.07b games... finished 0.

Each time, HRE take over north africa. In my last game, HRE attacked before 1090 or so!!!

In that game, I picked the Almoravids to see if Muslims stand a chance against HRE's 25k warriors! no way! I had to use the consol, to switch to the HRE ruler and then offer white peace! I've done the same to save christian kindoms in Iberia.

Now, it's around 1200... North africa is unified, christian kingdoms in Iberia are unified! the HRE tried to take the baleares islands from a little muslim emir, but I steped up in the war after I assassinated their ruler, hoping there will be a succession crisis or factions spread!

But France is bringing it on, and there is a serious faction spread in north africa! I'm still in control but it's getting harder!

Exactly the problem I'm having, I just cannot take this game seriously with the HRE Conquering African all the time and they not having real civil wars to keep them in check

 

[Hootieleece]

Even with factions it is pretty easy to keep large realms stable......The problem is that AI will use ANY/Easiest CB available(and for France/HRE that is Holy War most of time) In a way Catholic Holy War CB is as OP as everyone is claiming Moslem Invasion/Jihad CB is.

I think if you nerf Holy War CB to only neighboring states/realms and or put a high piety requirement on it you will slow them down.

In my current game I am HRE.The moslems only have Mali(about half),Egypt, and Arabian Peninsula.

HRE already owned 3/4 of Iberia and Morrocco when I became Emperor 1244.

Other problem is that AI prefers a war against religious enemy over other wars.

Since I lowered CA to medium the HRE Dukes in Morrocco are Holy warring Mali on there own.

Whenever independence faction is Created non of the Iberian/Morroccan Duke join........if they did i'd let them go.

 

[Casiru]

Its very easy for the player to win as either side in Iberia, the problem comes when one side wins and outside forces get involved. Unless the Fatmids win a crusade for a part of Iberia they won't get involved while France is literally right next door (although weak) and the HRE is close enough to get involved if the muslims want to invade further. Historically it became a stalemate for a long time, the entire period of CK2 in fact, since Morocco/Algeria were 1) a lot stronger than portrayed in the game and 2) more willing to get involved in Iberian politics.

Ideally it should be christiberia vs north Africa standoff or isliberia vs central European standoff. If there is no Jihad the eventual Central Europe vs North Africa is a joke.

 

[hannibal_barca]

Even with factions it is pretty easy to keep large realms stable......The problem is that AI will use ANY/Easiest CB available(and for France/HRE that is Holy War most of time) In a way Catholic Holy War CB is as OP as everyone is claiming Moslem Invasion/Jihad CB is.

I think if you nerf Holy War CB to only neighboring states/realms and or put a high piety requirement on it you will slow them down.

In my current game I am HRE.The moslems only have Mali(about half),Egypt, and Arabian Peninsula.

HRE already owned 3/4 of Iberia and Morrocco when I became Emperor 1244.

Other problem is that AI prefers a war against religious enemy over other wars.

Since I lowered CA to medium the HRE Dukes in Morrocco are Holy warring Mali on there own.

Whenever independence faction is Created non of the Iberian/Morroccan Duke join........if they did i'd let them go.

I think christiandom is wayyy to unified in this game. Rarely are do France and HRE fight each other, etc. Its always a long religious lines. I understand crusades, but the crusades were exceptions to the rule, thats the whole point the Pope needed to make a sermon and call the christians under the same banner, this because they were busy fighting each other. Besides crusades, the catholic powers should be fighting each other much more often.

 

[Hootieleece]

I think that the Moral authority of the Catholic church is too high at beginning of the game.Unless player actively promotes it and/or creates an Anti-pope. I never see a Heresy thrive.If Moral authority was lower heresies might spread and Christendom might end up fighting itself more.

The only time the large Christian Kingdoms fight each other is an Excommunication War and it is so hard to get someone excommunicated it almost never happens.And since it isn't a claim war no territory changes hands.

I've NEVER been able to get someone excommunicated, even with Saintly rulers.