[Forum Game] Graveyard of Empires

  • Victoria 3 - Sign up now!

    The journey begins, sign up now and get a special in-game item when the game is released.


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


BlackCrown

Private
67 Badges
Apr 2, 2017
16
2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
Seeing no response to the words of Hekmatyar, Haq tried to begin a discussion on the subject, hoping it would be agreed upon.
"I agree with your analysis of the situation, and agree that you are in the best situation to lead our efforts to fruition. No longer shall our glorious country be downtrodden by the pigs of the PDPA. Let our cooperation be ever present."
 

Rolman99

Private
48 Badges
Feb 13, 2016
18
4
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Pride of Nations
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
As-salāmuʿalayka, brothers. This Shura bears good news, it seems to me, for the Qur'an, which reveals all and nothing, proclaimed His most high word, "help one another in virtue and righteousness". Us Mujahideen's cause is just, Allah al-Hakam and the Prophet, may Allah honor Him and grant Him peace, are sure of that. Therefore, I shall join this shura.

Brother Hekmatyar, you are a blessed and brave mujahid, that is without doubt, but it is no secret that you are close to Pakistan. How may we be sure, besides your honor, that if you lead us you would work in the best interest of our Afghan jihad and for Afghanistan? I say we look to our own Pashtun jirgas for inspiration: we shall jointly run it, one man from each of the Mujahideen groups will come to represent their own. I say we invite the tribal elders and the elders of some of the larger towns, too, along with certain mullahs and imams of import. Insha'Allah, this will help us cast out the invading kafirs as soon as we can.

Furthermore, shall we exclude the Shia Hazaras from our Shura? It is no secret that some of you Salafis among us here see myself, a Sufi, as a heretic before the Most High, but I have been invited to come. Shall we put aside whose Islam is performed correctly in our Jihad against the satanic shuravi, who say that there is no god? I doubt it.

Bismillah, brothers, speak your minds.

--Pir Sayyid Ahmed Gailani
 

Dadarian

King of Queen's
74 Badges
Mar 4, 2011
5.021
349
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
Inshallah, I echo our brother Gailani. Shall we see this Shura bear virtue or shall it be but a proxy for the Pakistani ISI.

Bismillah, what says Hekmatyar.
 

BlackCrown

Private
67 Badges
Apr 2, 2017
16
2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
Wishing to avoid insults tearing the group apart, Abdul tried to divert the subject back to the original topic

"You are indeed wise in your wants, and a council of fellow men is what we've wanted. Leadership is required, however, for an ordered group. Perhaps a cycle of leadership shall ensure equal representation. In the mean time, send invitations to the elders, their knowledge shall be welcome amongst us."
 

Shebedaone

Annoying Singaporean
11 Badges
Apr 10, 2016
128
39
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
Assalaamu 'Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh. Our brother Gailani speaks truthfully this Shura is surely a blessed idea and i fully support it as in the words of the Prophet (PBUH) " The parable of the believers in their affection, mercy, and compassion for each other is that of a body. When any limb aches, the whole body reacts with sleeplessness and fever.”

On the matter of leadership i believe we should follow the example of the four rightly guided Khalifa that is Abu Bakr,Omar,Othman and Ali (RA).I propose we follow their example and adhere the same conditions to whomever we choose as our leader the conditions are that he

  1. Must be Muslim
  2. Must be Mature
  3. Must be Sane
  4. Must be knowledgeable
  5. Must be Righteous
  6. Must be a Man
  7. Have prudence in opinion/ Wisdom
  8. Must have firm qualities, like bravery and fairness
  9. Must have a healthy body and strength
  10. Must not have extreme care or want for the position
Bismillah, if my brothers would like to voice their opinions on my suggestion ?

Mohammad Nabi Mohammadi
 
Last edited:

baboushreturns

First Lieutenant
41 Badges
Jan 3, 2013
246
10
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sengoku
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
La il laha il Allah, Muhammad a rasool Allah. Gailani's words are true and righteous power must be shared not controlled by one man. We fight this war not only to free Afghanistan of the kufri but also to establish a just system in this country capable of ruling all of its people fairly and evenhandedly, one which distributes power equally among Afghanistan's many people and does not centralize it in the hands of one man or the ISI. I would also be interested in joining this Shura brothers, but only if power is divided equally and fairly among its members.

-Ahmad Shah Massoud
 

BlackCrown

Private
67 Badges
Apr 2, 2017
16
2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
Having heard Massoud words,Abdul began preparing more invitations. "While this council was originally a small one for military operations, it is clear we all have hopes for more. As such I have sent invitations to all of our fellow rebels, should this Shura prove successful, it may help form the building blocks of our future governance.
 

XVG

Megas Basileus
10 Badges
Oct 26, 2009
185
12
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
tHu9gtW.jpg

Col. Sultan Amir Tarar, Special Services Group, Pakistan Army

Having followed silently in a corner, a modestly dressed, younger and noticeably less-bearded man joined the heated discussion of the political and military leaders of the mujahidin in the safe house. Clearing his throat, he spoke with authority and decision in his tone.

"Brothers, let me remind you of the opinion of esteemed General and benefactor Amir Gul, who many of you have to be thankful to for your past victories, and of the incumbent military-political leadership in Islamabad. Currently all of the fine men waging war on the unbelievers and leading the mujahidin from victory and victory, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and Abdul Rasul Sayyaf have most decisively shown their commitment to the jihad to liberate Afghanistan from the atheist regime. They hold substantial territory, they have faithful and experienced men in their ranks, and above-all they represent the political thought and ideology our Afghan brothers are so desperately aching for. Thus, our position is simple, the leader of this shura, and the leader of any interim government should be the either of these pious and respectable men. We expect the participation of all members of the Islamic Unity of Afghanistan Mujahideen in such a formation. A closer-working operations shura would set a precedent to further co-operation, in the form of a proper interim government, which would certainly come to enjoy even wider support from us.

But I want to make clear that we will not concede on this core issue of a leader, and let me warn you, any leader, any commander, who dares to oppose this noble vision and belief for the brightest and most beneficial future of Afghanistan, will not be considered a friend of Islamabad. Some tones in this very room have already been concerning. Wise decisions are expected by our leadership, and in case such are made, I will in person provide you with considerable support for these future operations. Furthermore, the Islamabad leadership and the staff of General Gul believe that the Americans would be more than happy to increase armaments, financial and political support in order to ensure a quick and complete retreat of the rest of the Soviet contingent. The recipients of that aid will of course be decided in Peshawar by our officers and operatives, based on merit, potential and reliability. Actions are preferred over words, brothers. With the permission of God Almighty, Jalalabad and then Kabul will fall. You may continue, brothers."
 

Cleeque

Private
Nov 5, 2016
21
3
800px-Basmala.svg.png


Allahu-akbar muhajideen, brothers in Jihad - I shall attend this mahfil, but we must take great precautions. The kaffir have their ears in the sky, their eyes in the ground - we must watch our step, they track our every move. Put it in the deepest mountain, in the most desolate valley - we must dine in secret, so that Kabul cannot disturb, and we can talk as freely as to Allah, smoke the shisha, think acutely. We soldiers of Allah must communicate if we want to achieve victory in our Jihad - but there can be no true Sahib until Shaytan flees from Pashtunistan and Kabul, unless of course it is one who seems chosen by Allah, or is supported by our brothers abroad.

On that note, I wholeheartedly thank, those brothers. This is not a battle only for Afghanistan, but this is a battle for the Dar-al-Islam, the whole front of Muhammed's world. We must support the goodwill of our allies in the east and west, for this is only the battle between Islam and Shaytan - the Muslim and the nonbeliever, this is the holy Jihad, and all people of Allah are bound to fight in it.

We must therefore listen to our Islamic brothers, who have, honestly, helped our mountain kingdom so, so much - they have given us arms, alms, and send their sons off to fight for us. We must thank them, and not quarrel with them.

-Abdul-ahh Rabb al-Rasul Sayaf, leader of Ittehad e Islami Muhajedin

 
Last edited:

Dadarian

King of Queen's
74 Badges
Mar 4, 2011
5.021
349
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
Inshallah, we are not simple puppets to be played and pulled by the ISI. My men with bring about the one true jihad against the infidel non-believers. We will see that the Merciful Allah graces us with his favour and cast mighty spears against the enemy, raining fire upon those that oppose us.

Bismillah, so says I.
 

Rolman99

Private
48 Badges
Feb 13, 2016
18
4
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Pride of Nations
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
Brother Wardak is right. Insha'Allah, we will continue our jihad against the shuravi in an Afghan jihad. Mistake my words not, honorable agent of the good General, we love Pakistan. We love the Pakistanis. You are our brothers in the struggle against those infidels. But, I believe in the equality of the Mujahideen, not just before the Most High, but here in this Shura. We cannot have a leader, for if we had a leader of the leaders, would he not appear godly or like any of the honored Prophets, peace be upon them? That would be blasphemous. Once more, I say this: Why must us Pashtuns behave as Arabs? I say that our own jirga meetings are greater than any unequal shura, where one would become King over the other. But if we arranged this like a jirga, we would only assemble when needed, which, I believe, would keep us safer from shuravi airstrikes, and all men are equal in the jirga as representatives of their tribes and towns, and whatnot. It is simply more equal. I mean no offense, wallah.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A private note is passed to Wardak during the discussions.

Brother-- This bodes ill. We will not be led by Pakistan and their puppet Hekmatyar, this is an Afghan Jihad with Pakistani help, not some Pakistani-American power grab.

If they continue to assert themselves, then we ought to leave and withdraw the Mihaz from this blasted Shura. We will not be slaves. Damn their arms shipments-- it is better for us to be defenseless saints than well-armed sinners.

What say you?
 

Dadarian

King of Queen's
74 Badges
Mar 4, 2011
5.021
349
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
Brother Wardak is right. Insha'Allah, we will continue our jihad against the shuravi in an Afghan jihad. Mistake my words not, honorable agent of the good General, we love Pakistan. We love the Pakistanis. You are our brothers in the struggle against those infidels. But, I believe in the equality of the Mujahideen, not just before the Most High, but here in this Shura. We cannot have a leader, for if we had a leader of the leaders, would he not appear godly or like any of the honored Prophets, peace be upon them? That would be blasphemous. Once more, I say this: Why must us Pashtuns behave as Arabs? I say that our own jirga meetings are greater than any unequal shura, where one would become King over the other. But if we arranged this like a jirga, we would only assemble when needed, which, I believe, would keep us safer from shuravi airstrikes, and all men are equal in the jirga as representatives of their tribes and towns, and whatnot. It is simply more equal. I mean no offense, wallah.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A private note is passed to Wardak during the discussions.

Brother-- This bodes ill. We will not be led by Pakistan and their puppet Hekmatyar, this is an Afghan Jihad with Pakistani help, not some Pakistani-American power grab.

If they continue to assert themselves, then we ought to leave and withdraw the Mihaz from this blasted Shura. We will not be slaves. Damn their arms shipments-- it is better for us to be defenseless saints than well-armed sinners.

What say you?

(Private Note, although some say he's in for a promotion to Corporal Note)

I agree brother, let us leave. We can do nothing but further reduce our position before our comrades in arms and needlessly antagonise the ISI puppets and their American masters.
 

Rolman99

Private
48 Badges
Feb 13, 2016
18
4
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Pride of Nations
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
(Private Note, although some say he's in for a promotion to Corporal Note)

I agree brother, let us leave. We can do nothing but further reduce our position before our comrades in arms and needlessly antagonise the ISI puppets and their American masters.

((Sergeant note.))

Not just yet, brother. Let's see where this goes, but be ready to rise and leave.
 

Dadarian

King of Queen's
74 Badges
Mar 4, 2011
5.021
349
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
((Sergeant note.))

Not just yet, brother. Let's see where this goes, but be ready to rise and leave.

((Captain note))

I'm with you brother.
 

baboushreturns

First Lieutenant
41 Badges
Jan 3, 2013
246
10
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sengoku
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
Massoud listened to Gailani carefully, opening his palms as if to reach out to such a reasonable man before speaking. "Well said Brother, the Mujahadeen must coordinate if we seek to score meaningful victories in our war to free Afghanistan. But this coordination must come on equal terms." Gailani turned to the Pakistani Colonel. "I too have been fighting since 1979 and have scored many victories against the invaders and their puppets, I too am committed to Jihad, yet I have been with-held the aid, support and intelligence that has been offered to other groups by your government. My only goal is to establish an Afghanistan that is democratic, open and enshrined in the faith we all hold so dear. Insha Allah we will be victorious, so let us arrange a jirga or shura the name does not matter one bit to me so long as it is democratic and all groups are equally represented with no-one standing head and shoulders above the others."
 

BlackCrown

Private
67 Badges
Apr 2, 2017
16
2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
Abdul could feel tensions rising as leaders began to glare at each other. At this rate the Shura would collapse and with it, any chance of cooperation. He need to rear in the meeting and fast.
"Brothers, no matter our belief not allegiance, if we act alone we shall be crushed. I agree that a something myst be done for this situation. The proposal of a democracy may lead our Shura to hope. And while one may be worried of potential takeover of foreign powers, I see two ways to avoid this.

One, we elect two or more council leaders per meeting, thus ensuring power is not in the hands of one. Two, the leadership swaps between meetings at a decided upon order. I will say that if we let this issue divide us, the atheist PDPA wins and we disgrace Allah's name"
 
Last edited:

Noco19

Little Creole
69 Badges
Nov 20, 2011
835
41
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Gulbuddin Hekmatayar seethed as the discussion turned against him, labeling him a Pakistani puppet.

"It is apparent that you Gailani seek to defame my status, inventing conspiracy where this is none!

You come at me as a dog gone rabid, only betraying the weakness in your ideals - you lack the firmness needed in these times and you would foment this weakness in our cause. If we are to make requirements that one be of true Muslim faith - a stipulation which I find necessary - then no longer can this Gailani and his heretics stand before us, much less dictate the methods in which we wage Jihad!

I say this with Allah and the Prophet in my heart: I fight for our land and our faith, and those who stand against will be face a fury most righteous. I do not kneel before Pakistan, nor do I kneel before false teachers and false leaders; the nation of Pakistan is our brother in this struggle, and yet you seek to spit at them just as you would our actual enemies.

If you cannot accept a man as devout as I, than I shall have no part with you just the same!"


He stood, arms crossed, glaring daggers at the assembled folks.
 

XVG

Megas Basileus
10 Badges
Oct 26, 2009
185
12
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
D1YISyN.jpg

Lt. Gen. Boris Vsevolodovich Gromov, Commander of the 40th Army

A letter to the Afghan General Staff and to the Office of President Najibullah.

Comrades,

The planned date for the initiation of the secondary phase of the withdrawal of 40th army elements from the territory of the Republic of Afghanistan has been pushed back to November by a decision of our Ministry of Defense. Thus I humbly request that you do not launch wide scale offensive operations in the remaining areas of operation of the temporary grouping of the Soviet armed forces, in order to not endanger our operations and the fragile ceasefires in place in these areas. Of course, if your forces come under attack by the terrorist groupings, our units will provide them with adequate support, from air and on ground.

However, despite of these strong pleas, I am also authorized to offer you a helping hand. A firing battery of 9K72 tactical missiles has already been deployed in [REDACTED], and the training of Afghan crews is proceeding on schedule. Moscow has promised to provide a steady supply of these, along with other advanced weaponry which I will inform you of at a later date. Furthermore, humanitarian and military aid will start arriving to Kabul airport daily, and will continue even after our VDV depart their bases there. Our liaison officers will remain in Kabul to assist the general staff, as well as the Army and Air Force commands.

Our remaining units will continue to assist in demining, delivery of humanitarian aid, as well as the national reconciliation initiative. Comrades, I have great trust that we can see the realization of the success of our hard work and labor, paid by in the sacrificed blood of many Soviet and Afghan soldiers. I am confident that these sacrifices were not in vain. Even as the Soviet Army withdraws, the Soviet soldier, myself among them, will have the highest sympathy and support towards your just struggle.

B. V. Gromov

GM: Please avoid cluttering the thread with OOC (would be preferable if the current purely OOC notes could be deleted). And yes, things tagged as secret, for example the letter I just posted, as well as the matters you discuss at the meeting are considered secret, and not IC knowledge. The private note spread around at the meeting also counts as that. If it was mentioned as having happened there visibly, then you may know about it. But honestly there is no need to make such a hassle about it, and this precedent won't hopefully be needed again in this game.
 
Last edited:

Rolman99

Private
48 Badges
Feb 13, 2016
18
4
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Pride of Nations
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
Gulbuddin Hekmatayar seethed as the discussion turned against him, labeling him a Pakistani puppet.

"It is apparent that you Gailani seek to defame my status, inventing conspiracy where this is none!

You come at me as a dog gone rabid, only betraying the weakness in your ideals - you lack the firmness needed in these times and you would foment this weakness in our cause. If we are to make requirements that one be of true Muslim faith - a stipulation which I find necessary - then no longer can this Gailani and his heretics stand before us, much less dictate the methods in which we wage Jihad!

I say this with Allah and the Prophet in my heart: I fight for our land and our faith, and those who stand against will be face a fury most righteous. I do not kneel before Pakistan, nor do I kneel before false teachers and false leaders; the nation of Pakistan is our brother in this struggle, and yet you seek to spit at them just as you would our actual enemies.

If you cannot accept a man as devout as I, than I shall have no part with you just the same!"

He stood, arms crossed, glaring daggers at the assembled folks.
The Pir remained seated, and sounded rather dismissive.

"Calm yourself, Brother Hekmatyar. You ought to know not to yell such things at a holy man fifteen years your elder. Where is your dignity? You blasphemed before us all, no less, for you did not wish peace upon the Prophet, peace be upon him. Shame on you! And so you call a Sufi a heretic, like the barbaric Salafi you have proven yourself to be.

And to think, we could've gotten along awfully well. Insha'Allah, it would've been that way, but Allah al-Hakam as swayed you in this direction to achieve his unknowable goals. So be it. I shall play my part in His divine mysteries, it's an honor to do so. So, am I supposed to believe all those years in Pakistan, where you gathered up a jolly gathering of gun-toting Mujahideen, was because they were friends gained on your vacation? Don't make me laugh, Brother Hekmatyar. There's no shame to say you are a friend of the Pakistanis, for the Pakistanis are friends of us all! Allah bless Pakistan, that is what I pray for. You just happen to be a bit too close to these friends of ours, and so that gives me some concerns regarding keeping this Jihad a wholly Afghan-led movement.

Regardless of that, I'm equally troubled by your pride in pouncing upon the position of a leader, for it is not in our customs as Pashtuns to do so in an assembly of equals like ourselves. And to see you react in such a way, are you worthy of heading our Jihad?

Calm yourself and take a seat, young mujahid, and apologize most speedily, or you may consider myself and Brother Wardak excused from this shura. Show some respect, Gulbuddin."
 

BlackCrown

Private
67 Badges
Apr 2, 2017
16
2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
"Brothers, please I beg of you. This is a meeting meant to bring peace, not the hate that has sprung forth. For now let us speak as equals, I advise the matter of leadership to be dropped before more harm is wrought from it. Both of you are virtuous, all of us are, and no matter how we worship them, is it not Allah we all praise. Let us put aside our differences and create a state for all of Islam." Abdul hoped this would at least bring some peace in the meeting.