Fort thoughts

[Riekopo]

Forts are extremely simplistic and also unrealistic right now. And we don't even have a representation of coastal guns which were used for defending against enemy ships that came too close. Current coastal forts only interact with landing Divisions. They can't interact with the landing ships or the ships off the coast doing bombardment. They definitely need to add those.

I think at the very least Forts need to be reduced in cost greatly and made directional. WW2 fortifications were not circular castles. They faced the enemy direction they thought they would come from. Maybe some Forts were able to defend from all sides but most probably were not.

Also, I think the Japanese need some kind of special underground Fort ability for the Pacific. They built like all their defenses underground during the late war and maybe mid war period too.

Also, Forts often had their own special garrison troops I think. We don't have that in the game. Forts are just completely empty unless we have a normal field Division standing on top of them. I think we should be able to garrison our Fortifications if we want to. If you did it with a field Division then it would remove their ability to move and also reduce their maintenance costs and the Fort garrison would potentially have very experienced defenders. Or the garrison could come straight out of your manpower pool which means they would be third rate inexperienced troops (like at Normandy) unless there were a lot of battles at the Fort. Or you could leave the Fort empty as they are currently.

Also, crazy Forts like the Maginot Line were entirely self sufficient and self sustaining I think. I think they had enough supplies to hold out for a very long time if not indefinitely. This should be modeled with more or indefinite supply grace or something like that for the garrison.

Also, they need to add some Focuses or Decisions for building the famous German fortification lines in Italy. Which the Allies ran into and got stuck at for quite a while. They also need to fix the Westwall/Siegfried Line Focus. It does not go far enough north. And they also need to add the famous Panther-Wotan line as a Focus or Decision. Also known as the East Wall/Ostwall.

About a Fort Designer: I don't if we should have one or how detailed a Fort Designer should be, but I think it would be cool to be able to tailor our Forts to the type of enemy we think we will be facing. For example infantry or tanks. So you build a Fort and then you choose if you want to add anti-infantry defenses or anti-tank defenses or both. Forts were not all the same. There were many types of defensive structures in WW2.

 

[coffeelingfine]

I think a rework of forts is likely since the devs did say they want to do something about defensive warfare.

 

[Secret Master]

Also, crazy Forts like the Maginot Line were entirely self sufficient and self sustaining I think. I think they had enough supplies to hold out for a very long time if not indefinitely. This should be modeled with more or indefinite supply grace or something like that for the garrison.

The Maginot Line already has VPs, and VPs generate some supply. This mechanic is not needed.

Also, being out of supply has only a finite impact on combat. Aside from the inability to reinforce, it's not like units that are out of supply are hit with a -300% to their fighting stats. Indefinite supply grace would be absurdly overpowered.

Also, they need to add some Focuses or Decisions for building the famous German fortification lines in Italy.

Germany already has the Dismantle Maginot and Dismantle Czech forts decisions that speed up all fort construction, plus a permanent boost to fort construction speed from a focus and a minister that boosts fort construction speed and she can fire up the continuous focus that speeds up fort construction.

If you can't build the freaking Gothic Line in Italy with those bonuses, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not even sure any other country in the game gets as many potential modifiers to fort construction that Germany has.

For comparison, I can build a series of level 7 coastal forts from Denmark to Gibraltar in less than a year using all those bonuses together. Germany doesn't need any more help building fortifications than she has now.

 

[ecpgieicg]

Also, Forts often had their own special garrison troops I think. We don't have that in the game. Forts are just completely empty unless we have a normal field Division standing on top of them. I think we should be able to garrison our Fortifications if we want to. If you did it with a field Division then it would remove their ability to move and also reduce their maintenance costs and the Fort garrison would potentially have very experienced defenders. Or the garrison could come straight out of your manpower pool which means they would be third rate inexperienced troops (like at Normandy) unless there were a lot of battles at the Fort. Or you could leave the Fort empty as they are currently.

Also, crazy Forts like the Maginot Line were entirely self sufficient and self sustaining I think. I think they had enough supplies to hold out for a very long time if not indefinitely. This should be modeled with more or indefinite supply grace or something like that for the garrison.

A garrison system like in EU4 would not make sense in the context of wwii if you mean garrison can circumvent the combat width limit.

Not having garrison from HOI3 to HOI4 is probably a decision to simplify land combat.

As for supply, supply depot should be a thing. Maginot Line basically has "a" supply depot. But it is by no means self-sustaining. You can't produce food nor weapons in those bunkers. And don't tell me its bakeries make Maginot Line self-sustaining with food. Bakeries are not more self-sustaining than field rations elsewhere.

If the theme was Napoleonic warfare, I'd appreciate a fort designer for sure. WWII, I am less sure. What objective would you achieve with a fort designer -- as in what immersion will you add or what theme of WWII will you depict with a fort designer?

Maginot Line forced Germany to approach from the north in real WWII. It does that atm and when it fails to do that it is because of something else. (e.g. Tanks not being penalized by adverse terrain enough.) In any case, player Germany certain does not feel Maginot Line is traversible. Only AI Germany against player France would try to penetrate it and succeed in doing so without player doing something similarly ahistorical. What other theme of history do you have in mind?

 

[him_15]

Can't agree more, there are so much potential to for forts (both land and coastal) to be more interesting.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

There's @Michael Gladius Fort Designer Proposal.

 

[lingo74]

It’d be interesting if coastal fortifications were automatically garrisoned, with maybe a level 1 fort containing 1000 men or something like that and the higher levels containing more and being a huge investment, maybe even the higher level forts could damage ships to simulate coastal guns. Would make invading Europe a lot more interesting after Germany takes the Atlantic wall focus.

 

[Secret Master]

with maybe a level 1 fort containing 1000 men or something like that and the higher levels containing more and being a huge investment

Free manpower for every coastal province with a fort? And more free manpower with higher fort levels? How would that make it more interesting?

 

[lingo74]

Free manpower for every coastal province with a fort? And more free manpower with higher fort levels? How would that make it more interesting?

Just spitballing here but I’d like to see it taken out of the manpower pool like the off map garrisons are now.

 

[Secret Master]

Just spitballing here but I’d like to see it taken out of the manpower pool like the off map garrisons are now.

Fair enough.

I have an aversion to free manpower in HOI4. I find it irritating enough that there are several things that boost manpower with little or not consequence.

 

[lingo74]

Fair enough.

I have an aversion to free manpower in HOI4. I find it irritating enough that there are several things that boost manpower with little or not consequence.

I’m with you there, I’d want something like the Atlantic wall to be a drain on manpower in that scenario not a boon to it

 

[Iskulya]

I have to agree with Secret Master. I don't see why there should be focuses or decisions(beyond what already exists) for any of this.

The entire point of a strategy game is to make choices. If you're just getting huge amounts of free fortifications, then that's not a choice. If you want to beef up a defensive line, then that should have a real, tangible cost in IC that comes at the opportunity cost of doing something else.

 

[him_15]

Seems too complicated to me.