Fort mechanics make no sense sometimes

[lolada]

Happened to me also, they really need to fix this rule or bug, this is kind of game breaking when you rely on the forts.

When army enters enemy forts it should be able to ONLY EVER GO BACK or STAY. No passing through or to sideways, friendly territory or not it should be blocked...

 

[Harlehus]

Well, it doesn't change that they probably moved from a border province onto a capital province with a fort. Probably instead Luneburg - Hamburg.

They went Wismar>Lubeck>Holstein>Hamburg so it's because of the ZOC of Lübeck and Lüneburg overlapping somehow. It makes no sense that they would have moved from Lüneburg to Hamburg since there is a fort in Lüneburg that you cannot pass.

 

[Harlehus]

Wismar>Lubeck>Holstein>Hamburg is a more likely path.

That said, I know what's causing it; ZoC clashes are determined by total development. As a trial, I loaded up as Castille and created forts in Murcia, Cordoba, and Cadiz before deleting my armies, declaring war on Granada, and tag switching. I also used cheats to increase development in all three fortified provinces to test for various factors, which ruled out military development being the primary or sole factor. In my picture, the armies in Jaen can move to directly to Murcia because it has higher development, but need to return home before moving into Cordoba. As for the army in Sevilla, it can move to Cadiz despite me giving Cadiz and Cordoba equal development across the board. Not sure why it went that way, but whatever.

After thinking on this a bit, I'm okay with this being the situation, the game just needs a better way of relating possible movement paths to the player... and preferably something a bit more permanent than the checks, x's, and o's situation we have now. Maybe clicking on a fortified province could highlight it's ZoC? ZoC mapmode? I really don't know what's possible.

I'm unsure how this relates to my example

 

[mackwolfe]

THey need simpler and more visible rules on overlapping ZOC.

We probably all agree that higher level fort wins . If they are equal level, it should be some other criteria that does not change a lot and that is easy to spot. My suggestion is to have the ZOC exerted by the fort that is closest geographically ( by army travel distance ).

 

[Morik]

How about allow assigning provinces to a specific fort if the province is adjacent to multiple forts?

 

[Nadrak]

assigning provinces would create more confusion. I would vote for a simple solution - higher forts win, if tie - fort with higher development province controls it.

 

[merserm]

I also find that sometimes despite my intentions, the AI will mysteriously walk by a fort.

So, this is only a slight tangent.

How do we build a line of forts that can not be passed by the AI?

 

[Nadrak]

I also find that sometimes despite my intentions, the AI will mysteriously walk by a fort.

So, this is only a slight tangent.

How do we build a line of forts that can not be passed by the AI?

Do not overlap fort's ZOC

 

[Panzerschiffe]

Building forts on every province sounds like a solution, albeit, not a very good one.

 

[aplsin]

So far I've been assuming that if a province is in the ZOC of multiple forts you would have to siege all the those forts to go past that province, was I wrong? Do I have to restart?

 

[ChildeR]

So far I've been assuming that if a province is in the ZOC of multiple forts you would have to siege all the those forts to go past that province, was I wrong? Do I have to restart?

How would you siege all those forts if you couldn't get to them?

 

[Tacticus101]

I feel the issue is less about overlapping zones of control, which are confusing but don't change much, and more about being able to walk past a fort if friendly territory is on the other side. If forts actually fully blocked movement, and it wasn't possible to move from Lubek to Holstein, then this entire thing would not be a problem. Change that, make it so that you have to exit by the same territory you entered, and weird zones of control mean little.

 

[aplsin]

How would you siege all those forts if you couldn't get to them?

Isn't the ZOC rule that you can always walk to a fort or back where you came from? Hmm, now that I think about it that would mean you could walk past a fort on the border if there's another fort further from the border. I'm starting to see why only one fort can be said to have ZOC over a specific province (if that is indeed the case). Well nothing to see here I guess, I don't have any good solutions either.

 

[Harlehus]

I feel the issue is less about overlapping zones of control, which are confusing but don't change much, and more about being able to walk past a fort if friendly territory is on the other side. If forts actually fully blocked movement, and it wasn't possible to move from Lubek to Holstein, then this entire thing would not be a problem. Change that, make it so that you have to exit by the same territory you entered, and weird zones of control mean little.

Yes i was thinking the exact same thing. I have read other topics where this problem was also very apparent. Still i think the ZOC-system needs some reworking as well, at least it needs to be a bit more transparent and explained to the player. I mean i have no idea how they were able to cross from Wismar to Lübeck. The Lübeck-Holstein is at least explained by the 'friendly territory on other side'-weirdness. But how did they walk from Wismar to Lübeck when Wismar was under the fort in Lüneburg's ZOC? Maybe because Lübeck is more developed and then Wismar is actually under the ZOC of Lübeck rather than that of Lüneburg even though the game list it as being within Lüneburg's ZOC? Or maybe both Lüneburg and Lübeck exerts a ZOC upon Wismar making the move valid?
I'm quite confused
And a bit tired of dotting the u's

 

[justin6477]

I'm unsure how this relates to my example

Maybe because Lübeck is more developed and then Wismar is actually under the ZOC of Lübeck rather than that of Lüneburg even though the game list it as being within Lüneburg's ZOC? Or maybe both Lüneburg and Lübeck exerts a ZOC upon Wismar making the move valid?
I'm quite confused
And a bit tired of dotting the u's

I'd suggest loading up a save and looking at total development in the fortified provinces. There are two parts to ZoC, one is the recapturing provinces aspect while the other is the limit on enemy movement; so far as I've noticed, two forts provide the first element of ZoC at all times while the second element is decided by total development. Based on my experiment, it's almost certain that the move was valid.

 

[Harlehus]

I'd suggest loading up a save and looking at total development in the fortified provinces. There are two parts to ZoC, one is the recapturing provinces aspect while the other is the limit on enemy movement; so far as I've noticed, two forts provide the first element of ZoC at all times while the second element is decided by total development. Based on my experiment, it's almost certain that the move was valid.

I'm sorry but i really do have a hard time understanding your posts. So the move was valid because Lübeck had higher development than Lüneburg? Even though Wismar was only listed within Lüneburg's ZOC?

 

[justin6477]

Pretty much.

 

[ElCidtheConquer]

Started a Lucky Lucca run this evening. Built a fort in Modena. Mantua have a 3 star general. Declared on Pope who had Savoy as allies. He then allied Mantua but I wasn't worried as the fort in Modena would hold him up long enough for Austria to send an army down. Nope - Pope sent an army up to Modena from the south. They're all now marchning south and I expect my army will get obliterated thanks to Mantua's 4-6-something general.