Forms of government - fascism

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I have read a critical analysis of Napoleon III's France in terms of Fascism. But "Presidential Dictatorship" seems a much clearer simulation of the forces present in Napoleon's government. Dark Knight would obviously disagree about Nappy III, but he has a much more constrained reading of Fascism than I do.

Besides, the major social movements of the period were democratic/liberalistic, monarchical/reactionary and (much smaller) socialistic/anarchistic. The types of governments made available by the developers are related to the social movements of the day. Which is excellent, thematic and well structured. You don't play a (long) 19th Century game to think about 20th Century themes.

 

[Tunch Khan]

Which type of government is going to model 1908-1918 time-frame in Ottoman Empire?


It was an oligarchy, the rule of CUP and the leading tiumvira of Enver, Celal and Talat Beys.

They had absolute power and Enver Bey (become Pasha at that point) himself decided to join the great war at the side of Germany and Austria-Hungary.

Parliament was mostly symbolic and Sultan Mehmed V. who was crowned after CUP sent Abdulhamid II to exile had no power at all. Enver Bey was posing at the Royal Yildiz Palace garden on 1908 with his shiny military uniform with his new rank while Abdulhamid II was given 1 hour to pack and leave the palace.

All of their political opponents were either asssasinated or sent into exile. Media was heavily under cencorship.

It wasn't democracy, it wasn't parliamentary monarchy, it wasn't monarchy, it wasn't proletarian dictatorhip nor was it presidential dictatorship, since there is no president. It wasn't fascism neither.

All i can call it is "oligarchic dictatorship". Any ideas?

 

[John Poole]

A "presidential dictatorship" with the "Young Turks" being a multi-headed president would seem to be the best solution. Naturally if their are different ministers with different portfolios each Young Turk could get their name mentioned as well. Enver Pasha was head of the Armed Forces and one of the heads of state but also personally commanded the III Army...trying to be the next Napoleon I suppose .

 

[Keynes]

Originally posted by todorp
Well Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900), one of the main philosophers of the fascism was in the timeframe.

Nietsche was not a philosopher of fascism; his philosophy strikes in direct opposition to the groupthink and mass mentality of fascist regimes. F.N.'s sister, who outlived him, did become a Nazi sympathesizer, and that is the origin of that error (F.N.'s philosophy is still pretty dubious BTW just not fascist),

It would be more accurate to say that the philosophical origins of fascism can be found in Plato, but all that does is clarify the fact that the ideology could not exist as it was and take the form it did except in the specific time and place it emerged (ie after 1920, not before)

Nap III was NOT fascist, though Presidential dictatorship is a fair enough term (plebiscitory dictatorship might be even more accurate but perhaps a bit too technical for the purposes of a game).

 

[Tunch Khan]

Originally posted by John Poole
A "presidential dictatorship" with the "Young Turks" being a multi-headed president would seem to be the best solution. Naturally if their are different ministers with different portfolios each Young Turk could get their name mentioned as well. Enver Pasha was head of the Armed Forces and one of the heads of state but also personally commanded the III Army...trying to be the next Napoleon I suppose .

I'm not quit sure if that would work. Besides, Young Turks lost their trust in CUP after CUP seized power. Scholars, intellectuals and even some officers who were actually a member of CUP, just like Mustafa Kemal Pasha, turned their backs at the new regime seeing that it was no different than the dictatorship of Abdulhamid II.

Enver Pasha was a true Pan-Turcic (Turanist) romantic that had the obsession of uniting all the Turkish people on the planet.
Having miserably failed in the Great War, he escaped from the country and lived a life of exile.
His death was even a bigger tragedy. He appeared in Central Asia, united some of the Turkish tribal states in Turkistan and formed an army to resist the Soviet expansion. When he lost his supplies and most of his manpower, he alone, charged the Bolshevik Armenian Brigade with only a sword in his hand, riding his horse.
What a great reward for the soldiers of that brigade.

 

[John Poole]

Originally posted by Tunch Khan
I'm not quit sure if that would work. Besides, Young Turks lost their trust in CUP after CUP seized power. Scholars, intellectuals and even some officers who were actually a member of CUP, just like Mustafa Kemal Pasha, turned their backs at the new regime seeing that it was no different than the dictatorship of Abdulhamid II.

Enver Pasha was a true Pan-Turcic (Turanist) romantic that had the obsession of uniting all the Turkish people on the planet.
Having miserably failed in the Great War, he escaped from the country and lived a life of exile.
His death was even a bigger tragedy. He appeared in Central Asia, united some of the Turkish tribal states in Turkistan and formed an army to resist the Soviet expansion. When he lost his supplies and most of his manpower, he alone, charged the Bolshevik Armenian Brigade with only a sword in his hand, riding his horse.
What a great reward for the soldiers of that brigade.

I think it should be a "presidential dictatorship" with the Triumverate being "president" I dont see why that wouldn't work. I am sorry I didn't mean to confuse you into thinking I meant the ENTIRE CUP party should be president. Just Enver and his buddies.

 

[Syt]

Originally posted by Drakken
This thread would be closed if I could do it...

D.

I'll take over then.

The original question has been answered sufficently by Patric: Fascism will not be in the game.

It has been pointed out that fascism was not very important during Victoria's time period, while communist movements, on the other hand, were.