Forms of government - fascism

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From FAQ:

Monarchy, Constitutional Monarchy, Democracy, Presidential Dictatorship, and Proletarian Dictatorship is what you get in Victoria.

I wonder why if there is Proletarian Dictatorship there won't be fascism form of government in Victoria? If I can play as communist why I can't play as someone like Franco?

Post edited - this is not the place to count the bodies of ism-type governments. - Sytass

 

[The Andy-Man]

fasism would probably be a social democratic dictartoship in game terms

 

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Facism, as is known today, emerged in the 1920's. It was the heir of nationalism and mass media, which can barely be duplicated in the game's timeframe...

 

[Syt]

The fascist movement was founded in Italy in 1919. The Communist Manifesto, on the other hand, was written in 1848. One is well within the game's timeline, the other isn't.

 

[Jos Theelen]

Originally posted by Dzoser
From FAQ:



I wonder why if there is Proletarian Dictatorship there won't be fascism form of government in Victoria? Communism killed more people than fascism (especially most cruel communism states as Soviet Union or China). If I can play as communist why I can't play as someone like Franco?

I thought fascism was "invented" after the timeperiod of victoria.

 

[unmerged(10945)]

I suppose it could be possible to see a fascist government appear earlier had circumstances been different. A slight increase in the rate of technological growth, perhaps the great war spawned earlier from the first Balkan wars, something like that. It would be pretty rare though, so I can understand why they left it out.

 

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Not to mention that fascism arose because the inequities of the Versailles treaty allowed it to, in combination with the economic crises that followed.

 

[unmerged(10945)]

Originally posted by Constantine XI
Not to mention that fascism arose because the inequities of the Versailles treaty allowed it to, in combination with the economic crises that followed.

Exactly. One or many first world powers would need to take a major crash for fascism to easily gain hold. Even then, it was a process that took a few years. No matter what, it would be at the very end of the time period of the game. A mod could put it in, of course, but I don't see it happening in the main game.

 

[Grosshaus]

Presidential dictatorship is kind of fascism.

 

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re Systass

The fascist movement was founded in Italy in 1919. The Communist Manifesto, on the other hand, was written in 1848. One is well within the game's timeline, the other isn't.

Fascism emerged from nationalism and nationalism is much older than 1919 year. First communist state was Russia (1917) so I think that it was founded just three years before end of the game timeline. Fascism was italian version of extreme nationalism and this form of nationalism emerged in the end of XIX centuary.

 

[unmerged(12555)]

Originally posted by Grosshaus
Presidential dictatorship is kind of fascism.

It sure is!

 

[Syt]

Originally posted by Dzoser
re Systass



Fascism emerged from nationalism and nationalism is much older than 1919 year. First communist state was Russia (1917) so I think that it was founded just three years before end of the game timeline. Fascism was italian version of extreme nationalism and this form of nationalism emerged in the end of XIX centuary.

Nevertheless, there were strong socialist movements before 1917. Hadn't they been so strong, Bismarck would likely not have introduced his welfare programs.

Fascism is not only extreme nationalism under an autoritarian leader. Otherwise you might want to consider Germany 1914 as fascist. It also adds socialist and segregational aspects. Such movements were not influential before 1920.

 

[Raczynski]

Originally posted by Dzoser
From FAQ:



I wonder why if there is Proletarian Dictatorship there won't be fascism form of government in Victoria? If I can play as communist why I can't play as someone like Franco?

Do you suggesting that they left fascism out for PC reasons? As for I know they made whole game about fascism/nazizm, HoI or something

 

[MKSheppard]

Are the forms of government editable?

 

[Spruce]

I don't believe this thread has not much added value, why?

Hitler will participate in Victoria as a small digit - corporal ...

see the end date

 

[Bryaxis]

Maybe no fascist governement installed itself during that time frame but it is not from a lack of tries : just look at the political history of France from 1880 to 1920 and you'll have enough exemples, some of the pretender making mass use of the newspapers to make the public opinion favorable to them. The Dreyfuss case showed the power of such movements. The main problem of those groups was that they didn't have the kind of internal organisation the groups of post WW1 had due to the military training of their members.

 

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re Raczynski

Do you suggesting that they left fascism out for PC reasons? As for I know they made whole game about fascism/nazizm, HoI or something

I didn't mean that

 

[Spruce]

Originally posted by Bryaxis
Maybe no fascist governement installed itself during that time frame but it is not from a lack of tries : just look at the political history of France from 1880 to 1920 and you'll have enough exemples, some of the pretender making mass use of the newspapers to make the public opinion favorable to them. The Dreyfuss case showed the power of such movements. The main problem of those groups was that they didn't have the kind of internal organisation the groups of post WW1 had due to the military training of their members.

what regimes were fascist in the Victoria era?

and what's your opinion about the confederacy?

 

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re Sytass

Nevertheless, there were strong socialist movements before 1917. Hadn't they been so strong, Bismarck would likely not have introduced his welfare programs.

Socialism is not communism.

Fascism is not only extreme nationalism under an autoritarian leader. Otherwise you might want to consider Germany 1914 as fascist. It also adds socialist and segregational aspects. Such movements were not influential before 1920.

I don't think that Germany was extreme nationalism state in 1914.
Maybe there should be just nationalism dictatorship in Victoria?
Maybe there should be no nationalism or proletarian dictatorship?
Soviet Union emerged in 1917 (I know it was called Soviet Union in 1922), Fascist Italy emerged in 1922, both of these states are for me too late for Victoria.

 

[Syt]

Originally posted by Dzoser
I don't think that Germany was extreme nationalism state in 1914.
Maybe there should be just nationalism dictatorship in Victoria?
Maybe there should be no nationalism or proletarian dictatorship?
Soviet Union emerged in 1917 (I know it was called Soviet Union in 1922), Fascist Italy emerged in 1922, both of these states are for me too late for Victoria.

Ah, so your point is not that fascism should be in the game but rather that proletarian dictatorship shouldn't? As I said, the Communist Manifesto was written in 1848, which is early in the Vic timespan, and there were communist/socialist parties during the time (unlike fascist), so I find the proletarian dictatorship government justified.